What's everyone's problem with lack of the 3.5 audio jack?

[Kilrahi]

Umm, no. There is a DAC in the phone (otherwise the speakers on the phone wouldn't work) but because it is a digital signal that comes out of the USB C port there needs to be another DAC converter in the adapter OR in the headphones. Otherwise, again, the speakers wouldn't work.

So with the new HTC dongle they put a DAC in it. I have a hard time believing they blew the wad on it, but it's possible.

 

[mfreeland]

Umm, no. There is a DAC in the phone (otherwise the speakers on the phone wouldn't work) but because it is a digital signal that comes out of the USB C port there needs to be another DAC converter in the adapter OR in the headphones. Otherwise, again, the speakers wouldn't work.

So with the new HTC dongle they put a DAC in it. I have a hard time believing they blew the wad on it, but it's possible.

There is a very nice DAC in the phone, converting digital audio to power the tiny amplifier that powers the speakers and sends audio out the the USB-C jack, which shares pins in the jack to charge the phone. There is no other DAC needed beyond that. I'm an audio engineer for a living, and I can't see the need for or financially how a $12 adaptor or $40 headphones would include a DAC. I've read all the HTC propaganda and have researched the USB-C spec and don't think it's any more complicated than a single DAC in the phone, like the HTC 10, which sounds great. I'm guessing the 11 will sound even better.

 

[Bruce_Wayne8887]

Some one on XDA found a way to charge the u11 and use headphones with an adapter!! Under the XDA u11 accessories section!

 

[mfreeland]

Some one on XDA found a way to charge the u11 and use headphones with an adapter!! Under the XDA u11 accessories section!

I think I found an adaptor on Amazon. I'm gonna buy and try it.....

 

[Bruce_Wayne8887]

I think I found an adaptor on Amazon. I'm gonna buy and try it.....

Let us know how it works!! Which one did u buy?

 

[Kilrahi]

There is a very nice DAC in the phone, converting digital audio to power the tiny amplifier that powers the speakers and sends audio out the the USB-C jack, which shares pins in the jack to charge the phone. There is no other DAC needed beyond that. I'm an audio engineer for a living, and I can't see the need for or financially how a $12 adaptor or $40 headphones would include a DAC. I've read all the HTC propaganda and have researched the USB-C spec and don't think it's any more complicated than a single DAC in the phone, like the HTC 10, which sounds great. I'm guessing the 11 will sound even better.

You're an audio engineer and yet you don't understand . . . okay, to be fair to you you're probably not involved too often in the tech of (as in the actual guts of the tools you use) of your equipment. I'm sure you're still good at your job.

I'd post a link talking about the DAC in the dongle, but I don't have ten posts yet. Here's the simple fact though, all digital signals MUST be converted back to an analog in order for it to be any form of sound wave.

Just like HMDI, or regular USB, USB C is a digital transmitter - there are no analog signals going through it. That means any digital signal coming out that cord needs to be converted back to analog if you want to hear it. That requires a DAC. That's what a DAC is for, in fact, that's what it means (digital to analog converter).

The dongle has a DAC. The question is how good it is.

 

[mfreeland]

The dongle has a DAC. The question is how good it is.

Yeah...You're gonna have to at least tell us where to look if you can't post a link yet, because it's certainly not on the HTC site, that I found. BTW: I make a living mixing analog to digital signal as well as networking digital audio signal......

 

[Kilrahi]

Bloody heck people need to just accept logic in this world. It's supposed to be more powerful than a source. It's inescapable that if you have a digital signal (1's and 0's) it HAS to be converted.

That ought to be case closed, but whatever.

Okay, first a great irony, Android Central has done several pieces on the subject. Do a google search for the following:

"3.5mm audio vs USB Type-C: the good, bad and the future" in quotes AND "Android Central."

That will explain everything I just did but maybe if it's a source instead of a syllogism people will buy it.

Next do this one:

"International Business Times" and "HTC U11 hands-on: Can Edge Sense and Alexa help HTC squeeze past its smartphone rivals"

That is a hands on impression of the phone itself and its clearly mentioned in there. I assume he took it from an HTC rep who explained it.

Here's another decent one:

"eEco Le Max 2 review: Welcome to the age of USB-C audio" and "android central"

This is another piece on the subject that explains, again, exactly what I already said. Given more time and the right to post links and I can give more HTC11 references itself, but the laws of physics aren't going to be changed by HTC.

You just can't hear a 1 or a 0. They don't say anything.

 

[mfreeland]

This will work, has no DAC, and is essentially the same as HTC's adaptor.

https://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Female...ag=hawk-future-20&ascsubtag=UUacUvbUpU5825980

 

[Fred98TJ]

Yeah...You're gonna have to at least tell us where to look if you can't post a link yet, because it's certainly not on the HTC site, that I found. BTW: I make a living mixing analog to digital signal as well as networking digital audio signal......

I also have seen several links and specs referring to the included dongle containing a DAC.

 

[mfreeland]

In a few weeks, we'll find out......

 

[Kilrahi]

Okay, I think that after this post I'll have ten and can start posting links . . . I hope.

Do this Google search"

"pcmag.com" and "HTC Bolt."

As you probably know, the Bolt doesn't have a headphone Jack. It needs a dongle as well, and the writer clearly references that HTC's adapter - with a DAC in it - will come out soon.

Now, the bolt has a DAC in it. That's how you can hear people talk on the phone. How come it isn't enough to work through the USB C port?

BECAUSE the port is a purely digital signal. Even if it was converted before traveling through the port (which would be stupid) it would have to be ATD'ed (analogue to digital - hah!) and then have a DAC at the other end.

 

[Fred98TJ]

This link says it has am "amplifier" in the dongle.

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/review/high-end-smartphones/hands-on-htc-u11-review-3659077/

 

[Kilrahi]

Okay, about that Amazon link, first, it would have to have a DAC to work.

Second, there are no specs, and no reviews. So far all you know it doesn't work.

Third, again, there are no specs, so how can you possibly say it does NOT have one?

I feel like now you're just being stubborn.

 

[Existence_Inc]

Link which addresses the power used by the DAC in the adapter.

https://youtu.be/fGfTgu-8En0?t=3m51s

Thoughts?

 

[mfreeland]

and even has a tiny amplifier inside..... Thats just plain funny.

Look, you may be 100% correct and I maybe 100% wrong in my assumption. I really do deal with adapting digital audio almost everyday and maybe that is throwing my assumption off for this phone. I will have one in my hands the second it is available, and I will compare the HTC adaptor, to an after market one and if there is a difference I will be the first to admit it, and apologize for being wrong.....

 

[mfreeland]

Link which addresses the power used by the DAC in the adapter.

https://youtu.be/fGfTgu-8En0?t=3m51s

Thoughts?

I stand corrected, but still want to hold one in my hand to hear the difference...

 

[Kilrahi]

and even has a tiny amplifier inside..... Thats just plain funny.

Look, you may be 100% correct and I maybe 100% wrong in my assumption. I really do deal with adapting digital audio almost everyday and maybe that is throwing my assumption off for this phone. I will have one in my hands the second it is available, and I will compare the HTC adaptor, to an after market one and if there is a difference I will be the first to admit it, and apologize for being wrong.....

This isn't life or death anything, and no apology is required. It's not personal to me and being wrong isn't a crime.

Just on the general topic, as a hardcore fan of the HTC One M8, and planning on upgrading this year, this was a real downer to me. Apple pulled this crap off for seemingly no reason other than to be Apple, their fans blindly embrace it, and then it's like HTC says, "We want to be cool too, just like Apple, so clearly we have to do it."

Maybe someday headphone ports are outdated, but for now, they still seem way more advance for audio than the frickin' USB C port. Let's switch to that when the rest of the tech world has caught up.

 

[Bruce_Wayne8887]

You're an audio engineer and yet you don't understand . . . okay, to be fair to you you're probably not involved too often in the tech of (as in the actual guts of the tools you use) of your equipment. I'm sure you're still good at your job.

I'd post a link talking about the DAC in the dongle, but I don't have ten posts yet. Here's the simple fact though, all digital signals MUST be converted back to an analog in order for it to be any form of sound wave.

Just like HMDI, or regular USB, USB C is a digital transmitter - there are no analog signals going through it. That means any digital signal coming out that cord needs to be converted back to analog if you want to hear it. That requires a DAC. That's what a DAC is for, in fact, that's what it means (digital to analog converter).

The dongle has a DAC. The question is how good it is.

You say it has to have a dac. Just curious, I dont understand​ much so just wondering, how do the usonic earbuds work then? Is there a dac in them? U said it needs to be converted so when does it happen in the u Sonic earbuds? Jw not here to start a war lol I generally don't know lol

 

[Kilrahi]

You say it has to have a dac. Just curious, I dont understand​ much so just wondering, how do the usonic earbuds work then? Is there a dac in them? U said it needs to be converted so when does it happen in the u Sonic earbuds? Jw not here to start a war lol I generally don't know lol

Well, until a couple of minutes ago I would have argued that the earbuds have a DAC in them. There's nothing mystical about a DAC, and they can be extremely small. However, like all things, there are various degrees of quality for them. If HTC is blowing the wad on an amazing internal DAC, and then another amazing DAC in the dongle, and then another amazing DAC in the buds . . . see the problem? Sooner or later the odds of the next chip being amazing aren't very high for budgetary reason mainly.

However, discussing on this thread has caused me to read an avalanche of USB C stuff, and there is parts that support mfreeland's argument that one isn't required not because they magically don't have to convert, but because USB C apparently can transfer audio of some sort through it's non digital pins. I'm not going to claim I get it because I really don't as so far the only article I found was Android Central's excellent piece on it which I'll post after this reply since I now hit ten with this one.

Based on the article, there are some seeming drawbacks to using it this way, and perhaps that's why no one seems to be doing it. Either way, check out the article below. It's pretty thorough.