[Podcast] Let's talk about the U.S. Galaxy S Froyo update

[icebike]

Theory 506:

Maybe Samsung has realized that the wonky file system they use in all the Galaxy phones is not going to fly, and they have decided to go with Ext4 as Google did with the Nexus S.

Such a in-place conversion (without data loss) could take quite a while to perfect.

 

[Tarpit_Carnivore]

I'm not a Samsung owner but I think I can relate to your frustration as a current Eris owner and can only offer this.

Much like all of you, when I bought my Eris 2.0 was out for the Droid 1 and all I read from HTC was "2.0/1 is on it's way, aiming for Q1" when realistically it didn't come out until almost Q3 for the Eris. The single biggest thing I read to ease my frustration when someone on a forum made the statement of the following:

"The Hero/Eris was designed for the 1.5 OS and the changes to 2.0/1 are incredibly drastic which is probably causing a lot of the headaches in the delay of it rolling out because it's not just a simple upgrade as they (HTC) have Sense to deal with."

Now I'm not saying the jump from 2.1 to 2.2 is the same equivalent but I think one big thing to remember is that when you have a custom UI it does cause complications in the upgrading road map. Throw in the fact that they have 4 versions of the phone all with different features and operating on different frequencies, there is a lot they have to contend with.

This doesn't excuse them from the fact that it's taken this long but I think it definitely should cause you to look at the situation a little differently.

 

[rahlquist]

I have to agree that the wait can be frustrating, especially when there are applications that need 2.2 to run. I received an email from Samsung about a month ago talking about how the Media Hub is going to allow all this great entertainment to be displayed on your phone, yet here I still wait with no other communication. I like my phone, and don't see changing it anytime soon, but it would be nice to have it "current" at least. I can't say who is to blame, if there is anyone, becasue as it has been stated above NO ONE is talking about the release other than what it can do. If Samsung and the carriers would just come out and let everyone know SOMETHING, most people would quiet down and relax, but we have nothing to go on.
PLEASE would someone just talk to us?

I agree with much of what you say, even Googles own Gmail updates and such at first only worked with Foyo but I believe some were backported. The lack of communication is how a publicly owned companies keep their stock value up. The other thing is this Jacked up sense of what is good customer service. Example when I call AT&T and try to make a change to my account and their systems are down, they dont say that, they say "Our systems are currently updating" another lie they thing will save face.

 

[doz]

So you don't care about receiving the updates.

I don't care because I already have 2.2 via xda, I didn't want to wait for Samsung to figure all this out. But by all means complain, phone manufacturers might change someday and listen more. I would send some of the criticism to Google though, we should be able to get some OS updates independent of the manufacturer.

 

[jeregano]

OK. So, I have a Captivate from AT&T. I got it because I wanted an android phone, I wanted to get rid of my iPhone, but my wife didn't. My options were Aria and Captivate when I got it. I got it on release day. Had I waited I guess the Dell Streak also would have been an option. When I got it I was excited to hear it would be soon upgraded to the newest OS.

I have loved my Captivate. It has been a very good introduction to android for me and I was very excited to have it. Samsung was saying a lot about how the "Galaxy S line was going to be their flagship and get a ton of support". With the release of the Galaxy Tab I was hopeful and considered getting one. I was excited by the quality of my Samsung Galaxy S phone and the perceived quality of the tab.


It has been months now and here are a few conclusions I have drawn.

1) For whatever reason, and that reason is really unimportant now, Samsung has NOT stood behind their promise of "top notch" support for the Galaxy S line. This has been a problem for them historically.

2) The rumor is now, after just a few months on the market, the Samsung Galaxy Tab will be reaching its end of life at the end of February. I am glad I didn't get a Tab (priced out of my range) because you can rest assured that at that time it will also loose all Samsung based support. OS updates will go to the Tab 2 or whatever comes next. That is a short life for a $600 item.

3) Samsung is interested in getting NEW people to buy NEW Samsung products, support through a two year contract is not in their interest. Carriers are interested in getting you into a new 2 year contract, keeping you in the same phone is not in their interest. They have no reason to push for Samsung to give updates for phones knowing it will cost them money to implement the update. They are impartial to the fact that your phone runs 2.2 or 2.1 or 1.6 as long as it is running on their network.

4) Samsung does not care about customer satisfaction with the product and service outside of the initial purchase and products functionality. That is that. They are not dedicated to their current devices, they are dedicated to the sale of the next device.

SO for all of these reasons I have decided that no matter what happens with my Samsung Captivate, whether it gets Froyo or not (I have no faith that the Galaxy S line will ever see an official gingerbread) I will at my earliest available renew date switch to a different manufacture's android device (Right now this is looking to be the Moto Atrix) and never lay hands on a Samsung device again. They do not support or stand behind their products. Burn me once shame on them, burn me twice shame on me.

 

[rahlquist]

Now I'm not saying the jump from 2.1 to 2.2 is the same equivalent but I think one big thing to remember is that when you have a custom UI it does cause complications in the upgrading road map. Throw in the fact that they have 4 versions of the phone all with different features and operating on different frequencies, there is a lot they have to contend with.

This doesn't excuse them from the fact that it's taken this long but I think it definitely should cause you to look at the situation a little differently.

Sorry gotta call bologna on that one, the TouchWiz interface is easily swapped in and out as shown by many of the custom roms. In addition the code base for gingerbread is running fine on the Nexus S in my wife hand across the room. Nearly identical hardware.

Also compiling from source doesn't care about what hardware you're on as long as the compiler supports it. This is why linux so easily runs on so many platforms. From googles Froyo source there should only be at most a month to customize the source for fragmented or device specific hardware.

 

[hybrid85]

I got my wife the Epic when it came out. She really likes it and doesnt have any complaints but she will ask every now and then when that update is coming out that she can use flash on her phone. I've been telling her it will probably come out in a month or so since we got the phone. I'm truly amazed that it is now January 2011 and the US galaxy S phone's still dont have android 2.2.

I remember when we were looking at the evo and the epic, I decided to get her the epic because I thought it was a cooler phone all around, and was sure it would get 2.2 rather shortly after it was anounced in may, just like the evo got 2.2 shortly after it was annouced. There was a slight concern in my mind about Samsung and their sanfu with the Behold II, yet I figured that was in the past, surely Samsung would be all over making sure their new flagship phone is getting the most recent updates. I mean, at the time, the galaxy S was a great competitor and still is to the iPhone. I figured surely samsung would want to support it to compete not only with other android manufactures but also other smart phone manufactures, ala Apple.

My contract is up in March and I'll be picking up an android phone on sprint when it is. Though based on what I've seen from samsung with the galaxy S, I'm not sure I want to pic up the epic or any other phone samsung has available on sprint. I love pretty much everything about the epic. I like the slide out keyboard, the screen, the hardware. I just cant believe it still doesn't have 2.2. Compound this confusion by the release of the nexus S, that is based on the galaxy S phone, running 2.3 and it's enough to make you crazy.

I thought there were a few other manufactures that poorly supported updating their phones, I'm looking at you Sony and Dell, yet I would have to say, Samsung clearly takes the prize in this. The hardware in the galaxy S is amazing, yet with out any OS update support, what's the point?

Final Thoughts: Damn you Samsung.

 

[psikofunkster]

Who waits for official updates? Root baby Root!!

In all seriousness, I think as long as they say they are updating we should just sit back and wait. We don't ask team douche for eta's, why should carriers be any different.

Who waits for official updates? many users!!

I don't like running "exploits" on my phone in order to root them, i don't know what im installing!

Samsung Mexico said 6 months of waiting for froyo (starting january 2011) FGS! Its very annoying.

 

[tony bag o donuts]

My fridge is a Samsung and that works...even plays she'll be coming around the mountain when the door is left open...
just saying......

 

[briaking]

You are all correct. It is the Carriers fault, it is Samsungs Fault, its even our fault that 2.2 Froyo is not a fulling working OS on the US SGS line right now. The International SGS was just updated to 2.2.1 in December, and here we are speculating on what is and is not being done to upgrade the SGS Android OS.

I am one of the many that has learned to use Odin and has bravely upgraded to the unofficial roms (KA6) that have been floated on the forums. They work great. The benchmark scores are no where near the other 2.2 smartphones are so I would venture to say that there are some small bugs still causing issues (*cough*cough RFS).

 

[tony bag o donuts]

I never rooted and don't plan on it.

A person should not have to do things to their device to get simple things done.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[SocratesRising]

Thanks for touching on this subject. I am new to smartphones as up until September 2010 I was using a motorola / nextel phone which took forever to even text on. I purchased the Samsung Epic 4G after some extensive research into smartphone capabilities and costs associated with them. Initially I was hugely impressed with all the features, speed and build quality of my phone. I don't seem to have the GPS issues some folks describe. I am also OK with a little lag here and there - I mean c'mon, even my PC sometimes acts up and after all these little guys are basically computers in your hand.
With that said, everyone desires the latest and greatest. I was told when I purchased my phone it would soon update to Android 2.2.
I would settle for a joint communication from Sprint and Samsung on where they stand technically speaking, what the challenges are and the proposed date of launch for 2.2. I believe the frustration lies in all the busted promises and lack of solid information from these two companies. A quick "We are working on it, coming soon!" just doesn't cut it anymore. Perhaps that would fly in mid-September, but we are sneaking up on February 2011. Thanks for listening. SocratesRising

 

[Tarpit_Carnivore]

Sorry gotta call bologna on that one, the TouchWiz interface is easily swapped in and out as shown by many of the custom roms. In addition the code base for gingerbread is running fine on the Nexus S in my wife hand across the room. Nearly identical hardware.

Also compiling from source doesn't care about what hardware you're on as long as the compiler supports it. This is why linux so easily runs on so many platforms. From googles Froyo source there should only be at most a month to customize the source for fragmented or device specific hardware.

I'll disagree there because there is a difference between stripping out TouchWiz to get plain Vanilla and upgrading an OS to support a UI change. Again I'll use my Eris as the example but there are 2.2 Sense ROMS for the Eris but not everything works. Why? Because 2.2 was not meant for the Eris. You can apply the same logic to TouchWiz in that it was originally compiled & designed to work on 2.1 and that changes need to be made for it to work on 2.2 -- hell even the custom themes that people make flashable don't work from ROM to ROM. Plus not to mention that you can read through threads and threads of people loading ROMS and not everything working perfectly for some people.

Also your wife's Nexus S does not come with TouchWiz which your Galaxy S did. Same hardware but different OS design.

I also just looked on XDA and all I saw were Vanilla based roms. So yes they're compiling from source and it's working but they're not compiling and implementing TouchWiz.

 

[valueman]

No one would buy a computer that could never ever be upgraded. Its why we do things with computers. We know they can be upgraded rather than being tossed out for a new one.

Ok, but that does not address the current uproar. I have a Captivate, and it CAN be updated. I know, because I have done it. I run Froyo on my Captivate, and it is great. In that regard it is no different from the laptops I bought. The difference is that with smartphones there is a user expectation that the update will be provided for free.

 

[psikofunkster]

I never rooted and don't plan on it.

A person should not have to do things to their device to get simple things done.
Just my 2 cents.

Exactly im not buying a samsung phone again ever.... unless they update to froyo and then to gingerbread pretty soon.

Samsung galaxy s mexico queremos Froyo pronto! (no 6 meses)

 

[cpk86]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to chime in by saying that I know everyone complains about the fiasco that is Samsung when it comes to updating their Android phones, but it's not just Android. My wife had the Samsung Epix (released Oct 2008 running windows mobile 6.1) and it was supposed to be upgraded to 6.5. Despite the fact that 6.5 was made available to manufacturers about May 2009, the Epix did not see the update until Oct 2010. The update was promised much sooner than that, and then pushed back a month at a time for a long time.
Samsung is just terrible at taking care of current customers. They certainly make good products, but they age so quickly due to the lack of updates. It's sad that we all keep coming back to them really....

 

[whippingboy]

Well I FINALLY rooted the other day- and in the process had to install the leaked Epic DK28- before moving on to the ROM install- I tried out DK28. I saw NO PROBLEMS.

Installed sprint bloat? Check.

Working TouchWiz with the enhanced edit interface features that was previously NOT included in the Epic (but present in all other Galaxy S phones) Check.

FIXED bugs and glitches in contacts and calendar (ie: no sorting, no view options, no defaulting calendar to a google account) CHECK. (This ALSO makes this a REQUIRED update IMHO)

Now mind you- I did a CLEAN wipe of the phone and then installed DK28 with GPS active- perhaps the issue is they can't get 2.2 to update without a WIPE? And if that is the case, I can understand the concern- Android in 2.1 does not really back up too well even with 3rd party apps and that would make a lot of frustrated customers... but they COULD and SHOULD push out DK28 and make people aware of the risks/concerns and let them CHOOSE.

Most consumers may not even know or care they don't have 2.2 - giving choice to those of us that want it.

Communication of the carriers and Samsung has always been "wait for it" and then" ok not that date- a new undetermined one... but we'll talk soon!" THAT is unacceptable.

 

[mlpjunior]

If there's one thing that Samsung have assured themselves through this debacle, it's that their upcoming LTE device on Verizon will be a flop. If froyo doesn't arrive by late February before the new device, watch for Fascinate owners to lead the boycott.

 

[MegaSoundwave76]

This whole situation between Sammy and the carriers has turned into a farce. Verizon is pushing out a 2.2 update to the LG Ally as we speak. How is it that a mid-range Android phone is getting an update while a phone like the Fascinate (which has killer hardware and specs) still doesn't even have an OS update scheduled any time soon? Its not adding up at all. Something is definitely going on between the carriers and Samsung and we don't have any of the dirty details. I wonder if this will play a part with all the future hardware that may or may not hit US shores with the carriers...

 

[BSG75]

I have an hTC device. The bottom line is that hTC and Moto have been pretty good with updates. I'm on Verizon. With each vendor shipping out great phones, lazy updates will be a deciding factor for me. I don't plan on getting a Samsung device beause of these issues. Is it all Sammy's fault? Who knows? No one is saying what the problem is. Everyone is just wondering and speculating. If it's the carriers' faults, then Sammy needs to apply pressure because this is making them (Sammy) look bad. It's Samsung's phone in the end.

This is the free market in action. If someone isn't getting it done, go to someone who is. I'm just glad this is one industry (cell manufacturers) where there are viable alternatives.

You can say "blame the carriers and bloatware" but, again, hTC and Moto.

Sure you can just load a ROM, but just means you stop complaining. The persons at fault are basically let off the hook and continue their bad practices. Sometimes complaining is warranted and the "stop complaining" people should recognize this.