Anandtech - "Investigating the Galaxy Nexus LTE Signal Issue"

[Ken7]

Except Verizon said there won't be any changes to the radios, even in the new versions.

I think he was implying that new radios could be coming direct from Google. But this brings me back to the question I've asked before and nobody real knows for sure, will Verizon really allow a change in a radio to occur direct from Google without their intervention? I could see a direct Google update on something that wouldn't impact the VZW system, but a radio update that so directly impacts the VZW cell sites?

I just can't imagine VZW being hands off for something like that. If true, the 'direct from Google' loses much of its significance.

 

[Ken7]

And anandtech is STILL right. The phone does not have signal issues. Something else is going on.

Droid, when you say it doesn't have signal issues, I'm not sure what you mean. What would explain the fact that I can go to the same areas (admittedly not the strongest 4G areas, but that's the point) with a phone like the Rezound, and maintain a 4G signal AND great speeds, but the Nexus in those same areas loses 4G and the good speeds. In fact, I'll sometimes load a web page and the phone will just hang on the page that can't fully load. No such issue with the Rezound.

Now I can also take those same two phones to a strong 4G area and see no difference between the two. Remember, in both these cases I'm talking about performance as indicated by loading a web page.

This Nexus has a significant problem in performance in these less than ideal 4G areas and that's what most people are complaining about. Forget the damn bars, forget the damn indicated signal strength, I'm just talking about real world, every day, surf the Internet performance. This is something that really wasn't investigated by Anandtech.

VZW, treating this real issue by giving us more pretty bars, is like giving a cancer patient a bandaid. I find it pretty insulting.

 

[Ken7]

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According to Anandtech article and what others have to say so far, it looks like it is going to be the hand-off / authentication issue, rather than signal strength one. They must have put the wrong value for signal hand-off. I will see if this hand-off has gotten better with the new radio once I get back to a fringe area, which is my office today.....

I'm still not sure how that correlates with the fact that I can walk with the Nexus from one part of a mall to another and consistently lose not only 4G, but have the data flow just hang. This is repeatable at the same location in that mall every time. Take that exact same path with the Rezound and it never loses the 4G nor the great speeds.

I really can't fathom how this could not be a sensitivity issue with the Nexus radio. How is it any different than listening to say a news broadcast on a quality radio in a marginal signal area and hearing it very well. Listen to that same broadcast, at the same location and time on a cheap radio, and hear only static.

Take those same two radios to a strong signal area and there's little, if any, difference in performance.

 

[jhpk13]

According to Anandtech article and what others have to say so far, it looks like it is going to be the hand-off / authentication issue, rather than signal strength one. ....

Forget about signal strength. This seems to be my issue. Drop from 4G to 3G, takes some time to get a 3G connection. In server room, out of coverage, get back into open and takes awhile to get 3G coverage back. In a solid 4G area (philly area), no problems.

Read an article the problem is verizon's poor implementation of authentication for LTE devices to work on 4G and 3G network. Nice testing Verizon!!!

 

[mitra88]

I'm still not sure how that correlates with the fact that I can walk with the Nexus from one part of a mall to another and consistently lose not only 4G, but have the data flow just hang. This is repeatable at the same location in that mall every time. Take that exact same path with the Rezound and it never loses the 4G nor the great speeds.

I really can't fathom how this could not be a sensitivity issue with the Nexus radio. How is it any different than listening to say a news broadcast on a quality radio in a marginal signal area and hearing it very well. Listen to that same broadcast, at the same location and time on a cheap radio, and hear only static.

Take those same two radios to a strong signal area and there's little, if any, difference in performance.

In fact, the symptom you have experienced has everything to do with hand-off/authentication issue of a phone, IMO. When a phone is located in an area with weak, but multiple signals from different towers, it matter how the phone handles hand-off. It looks like, for GN, this hand-off does not seem to work very well. In a 3G phone, this hand-off is happening between the same frequency, the same network, which makes it a lot easier. However, due to the fact that VZW uses CDMA for 3G, the same hand-off process take several more steps to happen, between CDMA and LTE frequencies. What I think is happening on GNs is that something is not right about this process, and is making the phone more jumpy between frequencies, between towers, etc.

It's a very old story. When 3G network was being introducted for the first time, I remember the very similar issue was going on for 'new' 3G phones at the time. They were not sticking to good 3G signals, and were consuming considerably more battery than 'old' 2G phones. History repeats itself. Interesting.

 

[blazin247]

In fact, the symptom you have experienced has everything to do with hand-off/authentication issue of a phone, IMO. When a phone is located in an area with weak, but multiple signals from different towers, it matter how the phone handles hand-off. It looks like, for GN, this hand-off does not seem to work very well. In a 3G phone, this hand-off is happening between the same frequency, the same network, which makes it a lot easier. However, due to the fact that VZW uses CDMA for 3G, the same hand-off process take several more steps to happen, between CDMA and LTE frequencies. What I think is happening on GNs is that something is not right about this process, and is making the phone more jumpy between frequencies, between towers, etc.

It's a very old story. When 3G network was being introducted for the first time, I remember the very similar issue was going on for 'new' 3G phones at the time. They were not sticking to good 3G signals, and were consuming considerably more battery than 'old' 2G phones. History repeats itself. Interesting.

How does this explain why those of us who have it set strictly to CDMA/3G, with LTE toggled off, still have signal issues, data stoppage issues, dropped calls, etc., from places where our previous phones worked flawlessly?

 

[mitra88]

How does this explain why those of us who have it set strictly to CDMA/3G, with LTE toggled off, still have signal issues, data stoppage issues, dropped calls, etc., from places where our previous phones worked flawlessly?

Probably because the same radio hardware and the same baseband software is handling the hand-off/authentication process of 3G, too, I believe? If the hand-off logic in the baseband is faulty as I originally assumed, it should cause the trouble to the phone regardless of the type of the network. On my previous post, however, I mentioned the complexity of 4G/3G switching because it could have caused this faulty hand-off logic, if there is any.

For those who are experiencing the issue even with strict 3G usage, I feel really bad for you because I never have had the issue, even at the fringe area of my office. In my office, my GN works exactly the same way as my previous TB did. So, I am unable to reproduce what you guys are experiencing. Maybe, some of you really may be using defective phones.

 

[Droid800]

Droid, when you say it doesn't have signal issues, I'm not sure what you mean. What would explain the fact that I can go to the same areas (admittedly not the strongest 4G areas, but that's the point) with a phone like the Rezound, and maintain a 4G signal AND great speeds, but the Nexus in those same areas loses 4G and the good speeds. In fact, I'll sometimes load a web page and the phone will just hang on the page that can't fully load. No such issue with the Rezound.

Now I can also take those same two phones to a strong 4G area and see no difference between the two. Remember, in both these cases I'm talking about performance as indicated by loading a web page.

This Nexus has a significant problem in performance in these less than ideal 4G areas and that's what most people are complaining about. Forget the damn bars, forget the damn indicated signal strength, I'm just talking about real world, every day, surf the Internet performance. This is something that really wasn't investigated by Anandtech.

VZW, treating this real issue by giving us more pretty bars, is like giving a cancer patient a bandaid. I find it pretty insulting.

I mean (and Anandtech proved this) that the Nexus receives the exact same signal, with the exact same quality, as all of the other 4G phones. There may be other issues in play though. The signal itself, however, is not one of them.

 

[Droid800]

Oh man you are so damn ignorant to my posts that it is starting to annoy me, dont respond to my post if you can't read. Are you going to tell me that the damn phone is gving me a -98dbm while the razr gives me -74dbm in CDMA mode. Read the word CDMA. Now think about it and think about it again. THE RAZR SIGNAL IS 20dbm STRONGER THAN THE NEXUS.

Except you said, quite plainly, 4G. Here, would you like me to quote your own post for you, since you can't read?

Now you can say what you want, the radio is seriously underpowered in this thing. That much difference is ridiculous. At home I get the same 3g signal and if I put my sim in the razr and switch it to 3g I get -75 to -80dbm and when I switch it to 4g lte I get around -84dbm to -87dbm.

As I said in my original post, the RAZR will NEVER, EVER show you your LTE signal in dBm. It is NOT CAPABLE OF DOING IT.

So the signal is not weak? really? I am not even talking about the 4g here, the damn signal in general, so stop making ignorant statements.

Learn to read bud. You said 4g, and that was what I was responding to.

I don't even have too many issues with the phone, only that it randomaly drops 4g here and there. Thats it, luckily today at home it has been much better and I haven't experienced any drops.

Signal drops are related to authentication issues with the network, and specifically handing down to 3G. The signal it receives for 4G is no better or worse than any other LTE phone.

All i am saying is that 3g signal is even weaker on this phone than razr, are you really going to argue that the signal strength I am giving you makes no difference?

+/-10 dBm, when it is already at -70 or -80, makes ZERO difference to the signal you receive. -98 dBm is still a GOOD signal, and will make no difference to the speeds you receive on the device.

 

[Droid800]

Are you saying that nothing is wrong with the phone?

Not at all. I'm saying that the 4G signal it receives is the same quality as every other handset. The issues we've been seeing are due to something else.

 

[Droid800]

I think he was implying that new radios could be coming direct from Google. But this brings me back to the question I've asked before and nobody real knows for sure, will Verizon really allow a change in a radio to occur direct from Google without their intervention? I could see a direct Google update on something that wouldn't impact the VZW system, but a radio update that so directly impacts the VZW cell sites?

I just can't imagine VZW being hands off for something like that. If true, the 'direct from Google' loses much of its significance.

Radios come from Samsung and Verizon, pushed to Google, and then pushed out with an OS update by Google.

 

[bidoof01]

Sucks that I cant show off my LTE speed because I can't get good signals.

 

[booboolala2000]

No problems here. Lol

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[booboolala2000]

And one more for s and grins.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[Droid800]

I'm starting to think that speedtest's app is not giving correct results. I tried speakeasy.net, the FCC broadband test (both of which are based on ooklas test oddly enough) and the xtreme labs test, and all gave consistently higher results. All were very close to each other, which would make the speedtest.net app the outlier.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[Z Fury]

VZW, treating this real issue by giving us more pretty bars, is like giving a cancer patient a bandaid. I find it pretty insulting.

I agree with this point.

 

[cerktman]

Was there ever a solid explanation of what the changes are for the different radio firmwares?

Initially, I've been playing with the 4.02 & 4.03 radios and haven't found much difference in performance (actually with the 4.03 radios, the indicated signal strength was a bit lower, by 1-2 dBm).

This morning I decided to do some testing with the 4.01 radios and found that the indicated signal strength in dBm is actually, on average, about 4-5 dBm higher than the other radios. This was seen in both LTE and eHRPD/Rev 0 modes.

Has anyone else tried out the 4.01 radios and observed a similar signal strength change?

Currently in my office space, with the phone sitting on the table, with the 4.02/4.03 radios, it would show -94 to -100 dBm. With the 4.01 radios, I'm seeing -89 dBm right now.

 

[TrendyProfessional1]

Was there ever a solid explanation of what the changes are for the different radio firmwares?

Initially, I've been playing with the 4.02 & 4.03 radios and haven't found much difference in performance (actually with the 4.03 radios, the indicated signal strength was a bit lower, by 1-2 dBm).

This morning I decided to do some testing with the 4.01 radios and found that the indicated signal strength in dBm is actually, on average, about 4-5 dBm higher than the other radios. This was seen in both LTE and eHRPD/Rev 0 modes.

Has anyone else tried out the 4.01 radios and observed a similar signal strength change?

Currently in my office space, with the phone sitting on the table, with the 4.02/4.03 radios, it would show -94 to -100 dBm. With the 4.01 radios, I'm seeing -89 dBm right now.

Does 4.01 make any difference in performance day to day that u have noticed

 

[cerktman]

Does 4.01 make any difference in performance day to day that u have noticed

Haven't had them installed long enough to say.

However, I just did a test in one of the worst signal locations in my area. Walmart.

As as test, I walked around the entire store. With the 4.02/4.03 radios, I would loose 4G alot and have a hard time getting 3G data signaling back, unless I stood completely still. With the 4.01 radios, I could walk around the entire store and lost 4G signal only once. And that was in an area where the signal gets lost anyways; this is seen both inside and outside the store, as the LTE signal drops in that corner of the store. Walk out of that area of the store and it picks up 4G signal again without issue and holds it. Granted, the dBm reading is -100 to -118, but it still held it and I could access data without issue. I was able to properly make phone calls and send text/mms messages without issue as well.

Not saying this is a cure all for the radio issues, but I figured I may as well try it and see what happens.

 

[milan03]

Everyone is complaining about the signal level indicator... Let's talk about the raw LTE performance out of our Galaxy Nexus.
Has anyone ever able to get 50mbps, constantly on any other cell phone, all day long? I thought so. Well ever since I got my GN i'm pulling in these speeds:

So please stop complaining about the wrong probem. In my opinion, the problem, if there is one, is the cutoff threshold that seems to be to low on GN and the phone drops to 3G quicker than other LTE phones on the market. Radio itself is incredible, don't hate on it, or just look for something to complain about. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the hardware aspect of CMC221.
65mbps SpeedTest Verizon Galaxy Nexus LTE - YouTube