Dongle sound quality.

[modifier]

Thanks.......would you believe there are people on Amazon claiming the Dragonfly is only a DAC with no amp. How do they explain the output?

Not sure why some would claim there's no amp when it's clearly in the product title. I don't know what op-amp they're using. The former model appears to have used a Ti LME49762 tied into the ESS chipset since there's no analog split for amp-only use. Maybe that's why people are saying it's not an amp since you can't use it as an amp by itself? No clue, honestly.

Online reviews are all over the map on accuracy and background knowledge. Some people can't find the 'on' switch and others can precisely calculate the inrush current when flipping the 'on' switch. Most are somewhere in between.

 

[Mike Dee]

Not sure why some would claim there's no amp when it's clearly in the product title. I don't know what op-amp they're using. The former model appears to have used a Ti LME49762 tied into the ESS chipset since there's no analog split for amp-only use. Maybe that's why people are saying it's not an amp since you can't use it as an amp by itself? No clue, honestly.

Online reviews are all over the map on accuracy and background knowledge. Some people can't find the 'on' switch and others can precisely calculate the inrush current when flipping the 'on' switch. Most are somewhere in between.

Still liking the DAC in the 2xl as is except for a couple of songs that run a little quieter.

 

[modifier]

Still liking the DAC in the 2xl as is except for a couple of songs that run a little quieter.

For casual use the adapter's DAC is quite decent, plus it wins in convenience. I'm going to try a small USB DAC/amp at some point to see if I can reduce my portable setup to something smaller. The DAC in the Essential adapter can drive my 56Ω IEMs halfway decent so that might be good enough for travel.

 

[e30ernest]

I had some time to listen with the provided dongle and I must say it's one of the better listening experiences I've had on a phone so far. Now I don't have golden ears or anything, but when pitted against my current main portable player (DX80) while paired with my trusty Shure SE846, here are my thoughts:

• Noice floor is great. Running a lossless silent track, there is no way of telling if I hit play or not. That's really good considering how sensitive these IEMs are. My DX80 on the other hand will have some hiss.
• It gets really loud. I didn't test the max volume because I wouldn't want to damage my hearing or my IEMs but 60% is right about where I want to be.
• Bass recreation is really good. It's a bit more forward compared to my DX80 but it doesn't sound muddy at all. If you were watching a live performance for example, the bass on my DX80 would seem like it's coming from the back, while on the Pixel 2, it's like the bassist is in front of the stage.
• Instrument separation is great! On bands with multiple instruments blaring (like on a big band) I can still hear the individual instruments. Other phones would struggle there and make the sounds blend in more.
• Mids are reproduced fairly well. I do prefer the DX80 on this regard, but it's close. Vocals are up forward where they belong and they aren't drowned out by other instruments.
• Soundstage leaves much to be desired. Everything seems too intimate for my tastes, it's like the band is right up to my face. The DX80 creates a clear separation, and makes the music sound a bit airier with more space. Some people might prefer that closed-in sound, but I generally prefer being able to tell a musician playing from the far right vs just to the right.
• Treble... now this is where I think this is lacking compared to my dedicated player. Treble is there, but it sounds tinny... almost electronic. The cymbal sizzles sound very digital. As a former drummer, I am very sensitive to how cymbals sound like in a recording.
• I don't know if it's a setting I missed on the phone (I am running Poweramp with all DSP and EQ turned off), it does seem like the phone applies a noise gate like effect on the music. For example, on certain jazz tracks I've tried, the DX80 would play the music dynamically, rendering softer parts appropriately. The Pixel 2 however always sounds loud. Sometimes I even think I can hear the sound fluctuate a bit, almost like it's adjusting volume to keep things constant.

I'm giving this some more time. While the noise floor is better than my DX80, overall, the sound is simply better from the dedicated player (as expected). However, so far it's better than my previous phones. It's actually good enough for me to use it as a music player again.

 

[Mike Dee]

I had some time to listen with the provided dongle and I must say it's one of the better listening experiences I've had on a phone so far. Now I don't have golden ears or anything, but when pitted against my current main portable player (DX80) while paired with my trusty Shure SE846, here are my thoughts:

• Noice floor is great. Running a lossless silent track, there is no way of telling if I hit play or not. That's really good considering how sensitive these IEMs are. My DX80 on the other hand will have some hiss.
• It gets really loud. I didn't test the max volume because I wouldn't want to damage my hearing or my IEMs but 60% is right about where I want to be.
• Bass recreation is really good. It's a bit more forward compared to my DX80 but it doesn't sound muddy at all. If you were watching a live performance for example, the bass on my DX80 would seem like it's coming from the back, while on the Pixel 2, it's like the bassist is in front of the stage.
• Instrument separation is great! On bands with multiple instruments blaring (like on a big band) I can still hear the individual instruments. Other phones would struggle there and make the sounds blend in more.
• Mids are reproduced fairly well. I do prefer the DX80 on this regard, but it's close. Vocals are up forward where they belong and they aren't drowned out by other instruments.
• Soundstage leaves much to be desired. Everything seems too intimate for my tastes, it's like the band is right up to my face. The DX80 creates a clear separation, and makes the music sound a bit airier with more space. Some people might prefer that closed-in sound, but I generally prefer being able to tell a musician playing from the far right vs just to the right.
• Treble... now this is where I think this is lacking compared to my dedicated player. Treble is there, but it sounds tinny... almost electronic. The cymbal sizzles sound very digital. As a former drummer, I am very sensitive to how cymbals sound like in a recording.
• I don't know if it's a setting I missed on the phone (I am running Poweramp with all DSP and EQ turned off), it does seem like the phone applies a noise gate like effect on the music. For example, on certain jazz tracks I've tried, the DX80 would play the music dynamically, rendering softer parts appropriately. The Pixel 2 however always sounds loud. Sometimes I even think I can hear the sound fluctuate a bit, almost like it's adjusting volume to keep things constant.

I'm giving this some more time. While the noise floor is better than my DX80, overall, the sound is simply better from the dedicated player (as expected). However, so far it's better than my previous phones. It's actually good enough for me to use it as a music player again.

There's a lot of settings in Poweramp that can profoundly impact the sound. It takes a lot of tweaking unless you just go for some of the presets.

 

[nelamvr6]

Thanks e30ernest for that excellent review!

I agree with your assessment, I find the SQ via the dongle pretty great for sound from a phone.

Have either of you guys tried Neutron? It has a lot more adjustability than Poweramp.

 

[e30ernest]

There's a lot of settings in Poweramp that can profoundly impact the sound. It takes a lot of tweaking unless you just go for some of the presets.

Thanks! I generally turn everything off, however I found a setting that may be impacting volumes. Turned of DVC now. Will give it another listen when I have some time.

Thanks e30ernest for that excellent review!

I agree with your assessment, I find the SQ via the dongle pretty great for sound from a phone.

Have either of you guys tried Neutron? It has a lot more adjustability than Poweramp.

I haven't tried Neutron. I've been using Poweramp for years back when the stock Android music player app was pretty bad. I generally prefer to have all sound enhancements turned off when I listen though so unless another player has more gains elsewhere like SQ or efficiency then I'll probably continue sticking with Poweramp since I paid for it way way back already.

 

[e30ernest]

So yeah finally with DVC and all other enhancements turned off in Poweramp, the sound has become quite a bit better, with the dynamics of the music beautifully rendered.

The dongle really does give a very enjoyable sound signature. If the song called for more bass, it delivered. If it called for warm mellow vocals and delicate string work, it was OK as well.

If I have any gripes with it, it's just the lack of soundstage and a bit of roll-off on the high end. Others might like that roll-off though since it makes it less fatiguing to listen to. Soundstage really only becomes an issue on high-end earphones/headphones though. Even my SE846 isn't that renowned for excellent soundstage reproduction being in-ears either so I think this will be a non-issue for most.

Now for the big downside of this, it's still a dongle, and it is attached to a very important port of the phone. The dongle doesn't sit as tightly as my charger, so there is some wiggle (though it doesn't cause connection issues). That wiggle and the length of the USB plug itself makes me think twice about listening to this while in my pocket. Had the USB-C connector been really short or more flush to the phone when inserted, that would have been fine since it would have less leverage on damaging the plug while inserted (if you get what I mean).

I also have a pair of mid-range IEMs (SE425) that I could try with the phone just to see how that pairing goes. These IEMs are very mid-centric so I think this would pair nicely with the dongle I think.

 

[e30ernest]

I found a frequency response graph for the Pixel 2 Dongle (from GSM Arena):

Compared to a dedicated player like the DX80:

It kinda reflects the roll-off at the high-end I was hearing. But overall, the Pixel 2 seems to be pretty flat, which is a good thing. Basically this means your music will come out pretty close to the intended sound when it was mixed at the studio.

Compared some phones (that I haven't tried) like last year's Pixel:

The V30 (which people say have the best audio from a smartphone right now):

And finally, the iPhone X:

 

[modifier]

Over the weekend I tried an Audioquest Dragonfly Red and CEntrance DACport HD. The DACport HD had an overall better sound to my ears but drained my battery like crazy in the high gain setting. It chewed through about 1100mAh in an hour of listening. In low gain it wasn't any worse than the DF. Compared to the DAC in the dongle I decided that it's not worth the added parts, hassle and battery drain to use a small DAC/amp when mobile. The dongle is good enough for travel... to my ears.

I could see using a battery powered portable USB DAC/amp unit instead but that doesn't fix the hassle that I was personally trying to skip.

While many will gripe about the shift to 3.5mm on an adapter, I'm okay with it at this point. Sound quality is better than the Qualcomm SoC DAC that other phones use with internal 3.5mm jacks (again, to my ears).


Mentioning @Mike Dee in case you aren't subscribed to this thread.

 

[Mike Dee]

Was the Dragonfly high drain as well?

 

[LeoRex]

While many will gripe about the shift to 3.5mm on an adapter, I'm okay with it at this point. Sound quality is better than the Qualcomm SoC DAC that other phones use with internal 3.5mm jacks (again, to my ears).

Well, there will be a transition. I mean, there are very few phones on the market that provide more than just adequate audio.. Like you said, dump it off on Qualcomm... A company known for making premium audio gea... Wait, they aren't?

Exactly.

So we'll have to deal with adapters while we wait for the accessory makers to get their act together. Until then, the fact that Google threw is a bone and put a good DAC in the adapter is nice.

 

[modifier]

Was the Dragonfly high drain as well?

It drained but not as bad. It also didn't have as much punch. I liked the DACport HD much better, plus it was $50 less than the Red. But, the Red sounded so close to the dongle that I didn't see it being worth the price. At least the DACport has a gain switch to drive any number of headphones/IEMs/earbuds. But, that battery drain...

Well, there will be a transition. I mean, there are very few phones on the market that provide more than just adequate audio.. Like you said, dump it off on Qualcomm... A company known for making premium audio gea... Wait, they aren't?

Exactly.

That's the entertaining part. Those who keep saying that internal 3.5mm jacks are superior are listening to inferior audio unless their phone happens to have a decent DAC. Even then, that's only part of the equation. Some will still need an amp and others will want a better DAC than what's offered in a phone. And, after you've found the perfect phone with the perfect internal sound system, the whole thing is obsolete because the DAC or DAC/amp is stuck inside the phone. At least the dongle goes a bit farther.

So we'll have to deal with adapters while we wait for the accessory makers to get their act together. Until then, the fact that Google threw is a bone and put a good DAC in the adapter is nice.

Agreed. It's actually a decent solution if one is willing to look past the slight minus of having an adapter — or multiple adapters in my case.

 

[Mike Dee]

I'm curious if the third party one that Google is selling is any better. They also have one with the charging splitter though I rarely see myself needing to charge and listen simultaneously.

 

[e30ernest]

I'm of the opinion that if you are going to use an external DAC/Amp on a phone, you might be better off getting a dedicated player. You're already going to fiddle with an additional device so having a dedicated player isn't that much more of a hassle. On the plus side, you'll get much better audio from it.

The downside is you won't get your usual streaming services from most of the dedicated players. Most of them do not come with radios due to both cost and interference affecting audio quality. But then again, if most of your music comes from streaming, you won't be losing much just using the supplied dongle.

 

[modifier]

On the plus side, you'll get much better audio from it.

There are a lot of USB portable DAC/amps that outperform DAPs.

The downside is you won't get your usual streaming services from most of the dedicated players.

Many DAPs run Android so you'd have access to Tidal, Spotify and DSD/FLAC/WAV/etc assuming the device supports the format.

The major downside to a DAP is that if the manufacturer doesn't update the firmware or Android build, you're stuck with a brick, or at best stuck with just the DAC/amp portion. Plus, DAPs can get quite pricey for high-end units. The same money or less will buy one heck of a DAC/amp.

 

[e30ernest]

There are a lot of USB portable DAC/amps that outperform DAPs.

You are right. But still, if you're strapping an extra device on your phone, adding wear and tear on a single port that your device needs for charging, a dedicated player is a better choice in my opinion.

Many DAPs run Android so you'd have access to Tidal, Spotify and DSP/FLAC/WAV/etc assuming the device supports the format.

The major downside to a DAP is that if the manufacturer doesn't update the firmware or Android build, you're stuck with a brick, or at best stuck with just the DAC/amp portion. Plus, DAPs can get quite pricey for high-end units. The same money or less will buy one heck of a DAC/amp.

I've been out of the DAP market in a while, so yeah it seems a lot more high-end audiophile-grade players now have streaming support. You can flash aftermarket firmware on some devices though.

Anything on the audiophile market can get pricey on the high end. You're often going to be chasing double or triple the price for that last percent of performance due to the diminishing returns on these things. It's why I've stuck to the low range of the high end like the DX80/90 and the SE846. Moving up was going to be too expensive!

 

[modifier]

Don't get me wrong. I do agree that a DAP has its place. I have a dedicated DAC, amp and even a tube amp for desktop use just to get away from my phone. Nothing is more annoying while listening to music than constantly being hit with email, text and app notifications. Separating the noise is a good thing.

 

[Morty2264]

It's good to know that the dongles work well! I was initially afraid to purchase a phone without a headphone jack but of the sound quality is good, that's awesome to know!

 

[LeoRex]

I think some are going to the extreme. The choice is simple.

I'll ask this... If you are spending $900 on a phone, do you want one with a headphone jack and meh sounding audio, or one with an adapter/DAC that provides near class leading audio?

Now, if you are buying a $200 phone.. would you want one with a headphone jack and crap audio, or one with an adapter/DAC that provides near FLAGSHIP class leading audio?

That's what we are taking about here...