Don't stress the 'slow' charging (your battery sure doesn't)

[Jaycemiskel]

But most do. There was a study earlier in the year that showed that the average consumer keeps their phone about 21 months. In the US, it's 22, up 2 months since 2014. And one of the most common complaints that users have is that their phone's battery just doesn't last as long as it did when they bought it. If you saw the Pixel 2 ads, Google made it a point of emphasis that the 2 should do better in this regard...

Now, granted, there are kiosks in malls across the country that specialize in quick battery swaps, but I think everyone would prefer to not have to drop $50-$100 to do this.

In a perfect world, I suppose it would be nice if a phone gave you the option; either charge with a focus on speed or to maximize longevity. But given the choice, the best choice for an OEM is to pick the latter. And this is exactly what Google has done... A full charge from 15% takes about 2.5 hours. If you give consumers the choice between a 2h charge and a battery that will only last a year before going downhill, or 2.5h and give them 2 years, I think most will take the longer choice.

I have a feeling that the people who frequent these forums aren't the average consumer lol. So what you're saying makes sense, just probably doesn't apply to the majority of people here.

 

[LeoRex]

I have a feeling that the people who frequent these forums aren't the average consumer lol. So what you're saying makes sense, just probably doesn't apply to the majority of people here.

Don't be so sure on that.. remember who you are dealing with here. Sure, there are a bunch of posters here that go latest and greatest every 6 month cycle and switch phones more than some change backgrounds. But a ton don't... They just like to discuss them.

And there is a growing used phone market... With performance gains plateauing, buying last year's flagship at a bargain price meets the needs of a lot of people. And it's a great option, but it comes with risks... With battery health being probably the biggest. And it's quite deflating when you get a great used phone only to find out the battery is toast.

 

[Jaycemiskel]

Don't be so sure on that.. remember who you are dealing with here. Sure, there are a bunch of posters here that go latest and greatest every 6 month cycle and switch phones more than some change backgrounds. But a ton don't... They just like to discuss them.

And there is a growing used phone market... With performance gains plateauing, buying last year's flagship at a bargain price meets the needs of a lot of people. And it's a great option, but it comes with risks... With battery health being probably the biggest. And it's quite deflating when you get a great used phone only to find out the battery is toast.

Well how about this, the majority of the vocal members. I see a ton of names that are always switching phones. One thing I do know, any phone that charges slow is a drawback to me, and anyone who asks me what I think about the Pixel are gonna hear that it charges slowly. Samsung has been one of the slowest chargers because they won't upgrade their charging standard and it looks as if it even charges faster. I get that it has its merits, but I find it annoying.

 

[1901Madison]

Ok, we've had these two phones for a bit and I'm seeing a few complaints here and there about how the phones charge slower than others, especially towards the end of the charge.

STOP COMPLAINING!!! Seriously, stop. Not because I don't want to hear it, but because it's a GOOD THING... yes, with all these phones trying to out do each other on charge speed, what Google is doing is the smart choice.

"Why", you ask? It's simple. LiPo batteries are at their most vulnerable when they are nearing full charge. Think of the battery as a ball room... As it begins to fill up, if you have new guests run in too fast (voltage) or send in too many at the same time (current), people start to get stressed out and someone is going to lose it and start tossing tables and chairs. Eventually, the mess is going to get to the point where the hall just can't hold as many revelers as it once did.

A battery only has so many charge cycles in it. As you start to reach that limit, the battery won't hold as good a charge and what charge it does take, it'll discharge quicker. How fast you burn through those cycles depends on a bunch of factors, but one of the biggest factors is the charge profile; how quickly it charges.

A perfect example of this is the Nexus 6P. Huawei didn't do it's any favors in the way they set up the battery. First, they allowed for an high peak charging voltage (4.4v vs 4.35v on the 2 XL) and they topped off the charge fairly quickly. And if you left it on the charger after it hot 100 (don't do that, it's bad juju), your holding it at a peak voltage that put a pretty big strain on the cell, further reducing life. So batteries got hammered pretty quickly... Mine lost about 15% of its capacity in about 15 months. Others suffered far more precipitous drop offs.

This could have, should have, been avoided.

Anyone notice the ad campaign that Google ran that mentioned batteries lasting longer? What did that mean and how did Google accomplish that goal?

Simple.. they tread lightly on that 'last mile of the charge. Look at this charging graph:

//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171112/023fba610b474589ec71b45aab052c30.jpg

Here we have a charge from 20 to 100% (with a short pause in the middle)

Here we see a rapid charge from 20 on up to about 65% or so. Down there, the battery can take a pretty aggressive charge without breaking a sweat (you got an empty ballroom, bring em on!). But even at 65, we see things start to slow. Also notice the slow ramp back up? Again, that is designed to reduce stress on the battery due to charging.

Now, as you can see, there's a gradual reduction in charge speed as the phone nears full. The goal here is to allow the battery settle and charge without stressing out the cell.

How much? Well, if you set charging the 2 XL from 20 to 100 (taking it off the charger as soon as it hits 100... Seriously.. do this as much as humanly possible... Trust me, it's better for the battery)... But that 20-100 in the 2XL I'll set to 1 cycle. The same charge in my 6P would exhaust 1.5 to 2 cycles. I would have had to take my 6P of the charger at 80-85% to reduce the wear equivalent to a full charge on the 2XL

It's clear to me that Google set the charge profile on the Pixel 2 to help maximize the life of the battery at the cost of some charging speed. Since I hope to keep this phone for a good two years, I'm glad they made that choice.

Oh, that 6P? I still have it. I replaced the battery in February and my wife is using it. Since she's not nearly as delicate as I was, 10 months or so later, it's lost over 15% of its capacity already. But that's going back to Google for trade and she's going to slide into a 1XL I recently picked up for her.

I thought the theory that a phone should be taken off the charger at 100% had been debunked. Did I miss something?

 

[LeoRex]

I thought the theory that a phone should be taken off the charger at 100% had been debunked. Did I miss something?

Hardly.. it has been best practice since the introduction of the technology.

 

[LeoRex]

I want to add... Is it generally safe to do so? Of course, modern phones will protect against catastrophic damage. But it will lead to charge degradation long term. That is an established fact by the industry.

 

[Torisen1]

I have a feeling that the people who frequent these forums aren't the average consumer lol. So what you're saying makes sense, just probably doesn't apply to the majority of people here.

I consider myself an average consumer, just slightly more informed.

 

[PowrDroid]

I never said it was dreadfully damaging, only that it will reduce the life of the cell. You let it sit overnight, every night, that's what, 2000 some odd hours over the course of a year? A little bit of stress over a long time.. that can, and will, add up.

What does this "little bit of stress that can and will add up" really amount to? You're saying it matters because you say so. Do you have a source for this?

Look, I want to be educated but put it in real world terms. If the difference is that a guy who meticulously manages the charge cycles on his phone might get a month longer use out of his phone over two years vs. a guy that plugs in every night after the phone has drained to 30% capacity, who's going to worry about it?

 

[PowrDroid]

I want to add... Is it generally safe to do so? Of course, modern phones will protect against catastrophic damage. But it will lead to charge degradation long term. That is an established fact by the industry.

How much degradation? What is their definition of long term?

Again, a fully charged phone that is "overcharging" 2 mA into a 3,450 mAh battery is doing how much damage, in practical terms?

 

[paradroid]

I charge my phone overnight so I have a full charge in the morning. This is bad? When should I charge phone? I don't want to start the day with a low charge as I may not have the opportunity to get it charged during the day.

If charging overnight is bad, then the best option for me would be to have 4 or 5 Pixel chargers set up ever place I tend to settle down for more than a few minutes. Right now, my one pixel charger and it is at my nightstand. Also, a cigarette charger in my car. However, at $35 a piece this ads up quickly to the price of a fresh replacement battery.

With previous phones, after about a year I just open it up and put a new battery in it. Good as new.

Except.... I notice there is no way to change a battery with these phones.

 

[CVisk]

I charge my phone overnight so I have a full charge in the morning. This is bad? When should I charge phone? I don't want to start the day with a low charge as I may not have the opportunity to get it charged during the day.

If charging overnight is bad, then the best option for me would be to have 4 or 5 Pixel chargers set up ever place I tend to settle down for more than a few minutes. Right now, my one pixel charger and it is at my nightstand. Also, a cigarette charger in my car. However, at $35 a piece this ads up quickly to the price of a fresh replacement battery.

With previous phones, after about a year I just open it up and put a new battery in it. Good as new.

Except.... I notice there is no way to change a battery with these phones.

I hear ya. I do the same thing, as I'm sure many people do. Are we supposed to wake up in the middle of the night once it reaches 100% to unplug it? Perhaps a good idea for an app would be for it to make the phone quite charging once at 100%, which I know it already does this, but then to also not allow it to charge, if still plugged in, until it gets to a certain level, say 80% maybe.

 

[anon(661246)]

Just use your phone, geez. Might as well replace your phone every month then.

 

[LeoRex]

How much degradation? What is their definition of long term?

Again, a fully charged phone that is "overcharging" 2 mA into a 3,450 mAh battery is doing how much damage, in practical terms?

First, it's not overcharging. When the battery hits its saturation charge, it'll stop pulling current. But the phone is running, so there's a parasitic load on the battery. The power system sees this and rather than stop charging, it will throttle down to match this load. And it also is not 2 mA... that is just the aggregate (the amount the phone is drawing to power itself minus the charging current)... the actual charging current in that example I posted is about 45mA and that is by no means trivial.

As for how much damage... that's not as easy to define since it depends on a bunch of factors... the peak charging voltage, the ambient temperature of the cell, the amount of charging current are the three big ones. If you have a phone with a conservative peak voltage sitting idle in a 70F room, the amount of loss will be minimized. But if you make a habit of playing Asphalt 8 while plugged into the charger on a full charge, well, that will be on the opposite end...

Fact of the matter is, every single one of these batteries has a finite life, and how long (or short) that life is depends on how it is used. Some usage patterns help more than others, some hurt more... some 'best practices' can be a major pain in the butt for some people, but no one is forcing you to follow any of them.

If you haven't run into any long-term battery issues the way you currently use your phone, by all means, don't change.

 

[PowrDroid]

Fact of the matter is, every single one of these batteries has a finite life, and how long (or short) that life is depends on how it is used. Some usage patterns help more than others, some hurt more... some 'best practices' can be a major pain in the butt for some people, but no one is forcing you to follow any of them.

No links, So, you're the source for your knowledge. OK.

If you haven't run into any long-term battery issues the way you currently use your phone, by all means, don't change.

Well, I think I have run into long term battery issues. But maybe not. And who knows if my charging habits exacerbated the decline or not?

I'm still running my three year old Droid Turbo. A beastly 3,900 mAh battery. For the first 18 months or so I could get through almost 2 days without recharging. After running it down to 30%-40% I would put it on the charger in the afternoon/evening of the 2nd day and either pull it off somewhere in the 90% full charge range or when it hit 100%. Toward the end of two years I was finding I needed to charge it around noon and then it was in the morning. Finally, for convenience sake, I just stuck it on the charger when I went to bed the previous night.

Now here I am three years later and I usually can't make it to bedtime before I have to charge my phone.

So, my question is: If I were to be OCD about charging my battery, never let it surpass 100% charge for more than an hour, what would be my gain in battery longevity? Would I just now be going to overnight charging? Or would I have shifted my charging routines back only a month or so?

Because unless you can show me I'd save more than three months of degradation following all the crazy battery care theories I see on the internet, I'm not going to worry about it. And I am someone that keeps their phone for at least two years.

 

[hal1]

here's what I've been doing, and I think most of you could also. I put the charger on at night, and when I wake up in the middle of the night, is I'm sure many of us do, I look at the phone, (yes I'm one of *those*) . At that point it take it off the charger, and it's still at 99% in the morning

 

[Aquila]

I charge my phone overnight so I have a full charge in the morning. This is bad? When should I charge phone? I don't want to start the day with a low charge as I may not have the opportunity to get it charged during the day.

If charging overnight is bad, then the best option for me would be to have 4 or 5 Pixel chargers set up ever place I tend to settle down for more than a few minutes. Right now, my one pixel charger and it is at my nightstand. Also, a cigarette charger in my car. However, at $35 a piece this ads up quickly to the price of a fresh replacement battery.

With previous phones, after about a year I just open it up and put a new battery in it. Good as new.

Except.... I notice there is no way to change a battery with these phones.

A ton of people do this. As indicated earlier, leaving it idle on the charger isn't the best thing in the world, but it's not the worst. It basically just sips a tiny amount of power off an on throughout the night. if you're planning to keep the phone as your daily driver for several years, this is less than ideal. If not, you'll probably never notice a real world difference from that alone.

 

[LeoRex]

If charging overnight is bad, then the best option for me would be to have 4 or 5 Pixel chargers set up ever place I tend to settle down for more than a few minutes. Right now, my one pixel charger and it is at my nightstand. Also, a cigarette charger in my car. However, at $35 a piece this ads up quickly to the price of a fresh replacement battery.

With previous phones, after about a year I just open it up and put a new battery in it. Good as new.

Except.... I notice there is no way to change a battery with these phones.

It's bad.... but we're not talking 'shooting heroin' bad, we are talking 'eats too much bacon' bad.... remember that. As I mentioned before, if you haven't run into problems with your battery wearing out, don't feel compelled to change how you use your stuff. I am simply passing along information for those that might want to use it.

OK... I can only testify to my own habits here. I'm a 'charge early, charge often' sort of person and I have bricks at home, in my car, and in my office. I generally loathe leaving the house on anything other than a full charge, so I try to avoid running the thing down if I can... So I'll pop it on when I get up and get my kids lunches together, I'll pop it on when I get home from work, etc...

I've been using this thing for a week now and, at least for me, the battery performance on this this is extremely good. I came from a 6P, which was actually pretty good in my opinion (on a fresh battery of course). For my personal usage patterns, on a full charge, the 6P could get me 4 to 4.5hours of screen time with 24-30 hours between charges. Over the same time off the charger, the 2 XL will get me 6 to 7 hours of screen time. So taking it off at 80% if I went to bed means I'd wake up in the high 70's and have a ton of charge to play with.

 

[PowrDroid]

As indicated earlier, leaving it idle on the charger isn't the best thing in the world, but it's not the worst.

It's bad.... but we're not talking 'shooting heroin' bad, we are talking 'eats too much bacon' bad....

Really? These are the best answers?

 

[LeoRex]

Really? These are the best answers?

Look, if you are looking for discrete numbers, you aren't going to find them. If you look through some of the test data online, you'll see some charts from testing, but a lot of those are done against reference batteries in controlled environments and aren't exactly going to give you a nice little table where you can look at column A and line it up with row B and get a value.

 

[LeoRex]

I mean.. Everyone here (I hope) understands that getting your oil changed in a timely manner will help your car's engine perform at its best for as long as it can.... No one questions that... but you aren't going to be able to go on to Ford or BMW and see a chart that says 'change it every 5000 miles, get 150K miles. If you do it at 7500, you'll get 125K"