New OTA impact thread - please report in

[Mortiel]

No, LTE interference cannot explain the phenomena outside of a 4G area as is being described here.

Then it is likely there is a hardware design flaw that is causing it. I consulted with an acquaintance whom is a mobile device engineer for a phone manufacturer (essentially, he helps design hardware in phones, although not HTC).

To put it frankly, GPS is not some complex new technology that just was developed like LTE. GPS has been used by government and military for decades now, only with more recent iterations being reduced in size and made available for public use, which is still not that new. As a result, the supporting firmware with a GPS receiver on a phone is nearly identical on all phones having a standalone GPS, as the receivers themselves are nearly identical from phone to phone. Because of this, you RARELY see firmware tweaks/updates for GPS on any smartphone.

As I previously stated, the issue causing the Thunderbolt to reboot repeatedly was linked to a prioritization issue in the cellular radio firmware alone. It is entirely possible that the hardware configuration of the radios (cellular, WiFi, Bluetooth, aGPS) encounters other conflicts relating to power.

The symptoms of this would be reduced cellular/WiFi signal, Bluetooth interference (static on a BT headset), or weak GPS fixes. Yes, that is a LOT of variables, SINCE ALL THOSE PROBLEMS, COLLECTIVELY OR INDIVIDUALLY, CAN BE CAUSED BY OTHER FACTORS, which makes diagnosing it properly exceedingly difficult.

WiFi is the hardest to diagnose in its most common use because even with a weaker signal, 802.11n connections are designed to minimize "dead-zones" on outbound connections. Its easiest to diagnose via MHS or other wireless hotspot interactions from a connecting computer, as inbound connections fall victim to weaker signal easier.

I have often wondered if the battery cover antenna idea was genius or foolish (if it is related at all), since it seemed to be too easy to malfunction due to outside influence. If the hardware design is the culprit, there will be no software/firmware updates that fix something of that nature.

 

[mobiletiger]

Then it is likely there is a hardware design flaw that is causing it. ... If the hardware design is the culprit, there will be no software/firmware updates that fix something of that nature.

Your last statement is true, but the first one is not, because prior to the recent update GPS was very reliable after valid initial geographic fix determination. The problem users were complaining about was the long time required to determine their initial locations. The GPS Status app was able to quickly do that without hardware changes. Consequently, the phone GPS hardware is known to be capable of functioning correctly. Both the previous and current GPS problems are clearly software/firmware issues that can be fixed merely by means of proper programming.

 

[robrecht]

... It is entirely possible that the hardware configuration of the radios (cellular, WiFi, Bluetooth, aGPS) encounters other conflicts relating to power. ...

Only this statement relates to the hypothesis. Glad to see that you agree on this part at least. I think the rest of the hypothesis is well beyond anything that HTC or Verizon is likely to divulge about their struggles with this and other issues. At least for the time being. But, if you really do know more about this, please feel free to share here. Personally, I'm more affected by the unsolved data connectivity problem, but I think it relates to the GPS issue, if only because of the weenie battery on this phone that limits the options available to fix these problems.

 

[robrecht]

Your last statement is true, but the first one is not, because prior to the recent update GPS was very reliable after valid initial geographic fix determination. The problem users were complaining about was the long time required to determine their initial locations. The GPS Status app was able to quickly do that without hardware changes. Consequently, the phone GPS hardware is known to be capable of functioning correctly. Both the previous and current GPS problems are clearly software/firmware issues that can be fixed merely by means of proper programming.

+1

 

[markus_del_marko]

the new radio sucks, 4g drops out alot and i just had my first random reboot running bamf 2.1 GB.

 

[ktrent]

Knock on wood I am good so far. I have never had reboot issues and still none after update. GPS seems quicker and phone seems a little smoother.

sent using tapatalk

 

[Mortiel]

Your last statement is true, but the first one is not, because prior to the recent update GPS was very reliable after valid initial geographic fix determination. The problem users were complaining about was the long time required to determine their initial locations. The GPS Status app was able to quickly do that without hardware changes. Consequently, the phone GPS hardware is known to be capable of functioning correctly. Both the previous and current GPS problems are clearly software/firmware issues that can be fixed merely by means of proper programming.

On the contrary. What I stated is that a design flaw is leading to issues with GPS. Saying that because the GPS worked at one point but does not now does not eliminate a design flaw. Some are not made visible in a device until after the 10th update. Its all about what changes in the update.

If an update causes more power to be drawn by the cellular radios, the GPS may be getting less power, which means weaker receiving signal. Weaker receiving signal means it takes much longer for GPS satellites to find the phone, not less accurate. This is all what I was talking about in my previous post. Does that make sense now?

Only this statement relates to the hypothesis. Glad to see that you agree on this part at least. I think the rest of the hypothesis is well beyond anything that HTC or Verizon is likely to divulge about their struggles with this and other issues. At least for the time being. But, if you really do know more about this, please feel free to share here. Personally, I'm more affected by the unsolved data connectivity problem, but I think it relates to the GPS issue, if only because of the weenie battery on this phone that limits the options available to fix these problems.

I do not know of anything sadly... At this point, that would likely be a carefully guarded secret of HTC.

I think the battery, while under-powered for the phone, would be inconsequential on this issue. A 3.7V battery is a 3.7V battery. The ampere-hours of the battery (1.4 ampere-hours on the Thunderbolt) is not a measurement of electrical energy, but of power transfer over time.

The design flaw I am speaking of would more likely be that the voltage going to the radios is enough to power one or two radios (say that number is 2V for example). Its powering four, and one of those four is a multiplex radio broadcasting on 3 different radio frequencies at the same time (which needs 3.7V, meaning it will draw 1.7V from the other radios, diminishing their ability).

 

[robrecht]

... If an update causes more power to be drawn by the cellular radios, the GPS may be getting less power, which means weaker receiving signal. Weaker receiving signal means it takes much longer for GPS satellites to find the phone, not less accurate. [r: The phonomenon to be explained here is not accuracy but apparent pulsing.]

I do not know of anything sadly... At this point, that would likely be a carefully guarded secret of HTC. [r: hopefully also some engineers at Verizon, but that's a discussion you dropped out of previously.]

I think the battery, while under-powered for the phone, would be inconsequential on this issue. A 3.7V battery is a 3.7V battery. The ampere-hours of the battery (1.4 ampere-hours on the Thunderbolt) is not a measurement of electrical energy, but of power transfer over time. [r: and it is the amount of time that sufficient power is available that has reportedly been the overriding limiting factor since prior to launch.]

The design flaw I am speaking of would more likely be that the voltage going to the radios is enough to power one or two radios (say that number is 2V for example). Its powering four, and one of those four is a multiplex radio broadcasting on 3 different radio frequencies at the same time (which needs 3.7V, meaning it will draw 1.7V from the other radios, diminishing their ability). [r: do you really believe the limiting factor is insufficient peak power or unacceptable power drain over time?]

 

[droid83]

No 4G when I get in my apartment. There's a 4G tower 1 mile away from apt. Tech support told me its picking up two 3G towers 10 miles away instead. Not gonna get the unlimited tethering now. Not with 3G only when i'm home. Tbolt has been a joke

 

[equus]

1. seems battery life went down, used to last about eight hours now I am down to five
2.GPS does NOT lock on till I reboot everytime now.
3. Signal strength is worse now, once in my life time i have had more dropped calls with VZW after this update.
4.YES, Hot Spot is DEAD.
5. Just pitiful with the bloatware VZW decided to dump on this so called OTA update.
6. STILL have Force close on Face Book,HTC weather and included SMS app.
7. MOST IMPORTANT of all.....it still reboots on its own at any given time with no warning...upto 8 or ten times a day.

I guess as one of my friends on another forum mentioned....all devices that are named after "weather" like STORM and THUNDERBOLT by VZW have been so way under the weather, they ought to stop using those names.


Just want to say, I did not ever root it and ONLY app from Market I have is Facebook....no active wall papers, no constant sync to any servers, no automatic sync, no Back Up Assistant on, No Gmail push on...I have done everything it takes to conserve battery life and am on 3G and I hate to say it I am NOT using it as it was advertised cause IF I DO it becomes a POS in three hours...
I am sorry for the rant...I apologize.

 

[Mortiel]

1. seems battery life went down, used to last about eight hours now I am down to five
2.GPS does NOT lock on till I reboot everytime now.
3. Signal strength is worse now, once in my life time i have had more dropped calls with VZW after this update.
4.YES, Hot Spot is DEAD.
5. Just pitiful with the bloatware VZW decided to dump on this so called OTA update.
6. STILL have Force close on Face Book,HTC weather and included SMS app.
7. MOST IMPORTANT of all.....it still reboots on its own at any given time with no warning...upto 8 or ten times a day.

I guess as one of my friends on another forum mentioned....all devices that are named after "weather" like STORM and THUNDERBOLT by VZW have been so way under the weather, they ought to stop using those names.


Just want to say, I did not ever root it and ONLY app from Market I have is Facebook....no active wall papers, no constant sync to any servers, no automatic sync, no Back Up Assistant on, No Gmail push on...I have done everything it takes to conserve battery life and am on 3G and I hate to say it I am NOT using it as it was advertised cause IF I DO it becomes a POS in three hours...
I am sorry for the rant...I apologize.

Based upon your claims, I think your device may have some deeper issues... You really might want to look into replacements options with Verizon Tech Support. If they want to do a warranty replacement, you will likely need to do a factory data reset. If the phone is that much of an inconvenience to you, you could ask the rep about the possibility of getting another device instead of the Thunderbolt, but that is entirely up to you.

 

[Mortiel]

Post

Like I said, I think there is something else on the hardware that is drawing power away from particular radios. It could even be the processor or the screen that is drawing too much voltage and its taking away from the GPS and/or cellular radios. This would cause pulsing, fluctuating, or low signal.

 

[robrecht]

Like I said, I think there is something else on the hardware that is drawing power away from particular radios. It could even be the processor or the screen that is drawing too much voltage and its taking away from the GPS and/or cellular radios. This would cause pulsing, fluctuating, or low signal.

So you really do think it's a peak power issue. That should be extremely easy to diagnose.

Thanks, Robrecht

 

[yodatom10]

So you really do think it's a peak power issue. That should be extremely easy to diagnose.

Thanks, Robrecht

sounds like a power issue to me.

 

[miller7796]

If the phone is that much of an inconvenience to you, you could ask the rep about the possibility of getting another device instead of the Thunderbolt, but that is entirely up to you.

I've basically been told 'no way in hell' by tech support on this happening if you are outside of your initial return period.

 

[robrecht]

sounds like a power issue to me.

I think it's pretty clear that they've been tweaking power to radios since prior to release of the phone and with the leaked and official radio 'MRs' since. But I don't think it's an insufficient peak power issue. I think rather their attempts to squeeze out sufficient battery life from the weenie 1400 mAh have limited their options in deriving optimum radio performance.

Thanks, Robrecht

 

[z06psi]

Zero issues. I mean zero. I have not had one reboot, lock up, GPS problem since I bought it. The new OTA seems to make my extended battery last even longer.

 

[Mortiel]

I've basically been told 'no way in hell' by tech support on this happening if you are outside of your initial return period.

Call back in again. Every rep has a different supervisor, and each supervisor has a different policy on alternate CLNRs.

 

[miller7796]

Call back in again. Every rep has a different supervisor, and each supervisor has a different policy on alternate CLNRs.

But will the alternate CLNR be a complete phone? Usually, it is JUST the phone...no battery, battery cover, etc. And no wonder this is so difficult, every supervisor does his/her own thing.

 

[willymakit]

But will the alternate CLNR be a complete phone? Usually, it is JUST the phone...no battery, battery cover, etc. And no wonder this is so difficult, every supervisor does his/her own thing.

If they give you a completly different phone it comes with everything, if it is just a warrenty replacement it will be just the phone. If you got a different phone why would they sent you a phone with no accssories?????????