I find this odd.

[shmotog]

That is not the future...it is half the price because they are eating a loss on it to get exposure. That is not the normal price (the nexus price is not normal either and for the same reason).

It's a smart move on their part to do it, but I am not fooling myself that it is permanent.

Forgot to mention, take example of the great Moto G, are motorola making a loss as well by offering more for less? They probably made twice the profit by now by selling much much more than the competition.

 

[shmotog]

BBOS was a classic style qwerty phone and windows mobile was a pocket PC. They had no interest in touch interfaces or, In WinMo's case, the touch experience. WinMo was designed to use with a stylus if it was touch at all and was predominately built for non-touch devices just like Blackberry. HTC just haphazardly slapped it on touch devices and then a few others followed suit there. It wasn't the intention of the OS though. Thus, the market was not saturated at that point. In 2008, less than 7 percent of cell phone owners owned a smartphone and there were no viable and decent options outside of Android at it's introduction. Yeah, the market wasn't saturated then. By the time Windows Phone came out, that number had quadrupled in large part because of Android. By that point, it was nigh impossible for a new OS to really gain foothold.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Tizen Store just says Store under it and has a very similar brief case style icon with just a different logo on it... Considering it will be able to run Android apps and people will flock to anything Samsung does, I don't see that posing much of a problem.

The reason android is preferred is because of GOOGLE, not because of samsung or anyone or anything else.

People buy a smartphone for a few things and GOOGLE offers them better than anyone else, the examples being:
-google maps (beats any other gps app)
-gmail
-google search (the whole integration with google now etc)
-google wallet

After that people use smartphones for financial purposes and most banking apps support either ios or android. most major banks dont offer apps for blackberry for windows phone.

 

[shmotog]

Again, that statement is factually incorrect. You keep repeating this as if repetition will make it true heh heh.

View attachment 125002

There was already a smartphone market when Android came along. Nokia and Blackberry and Apple had already been selling smartphones for years. Android did not debut in some kind of vacuum. Android succeeded in drawing new users because it was better than it's competitors. Bonus: This chart shows Microsoft with a HIGHER marketshare than Android, LOL.

None of these excuses would explain how WP is going to overcome the competition anyway. If anything, it makes it far LESS likely that WP can succeed. Android already does everything WP can do, and has a huge installed base and a head start of years.


We have been saying that all along. That is why WP is going nowhere fast. There is nothing they offer that is better than what is already out there.


So why have they not already done so? Your speculation is not objective fact by default.

Actaully windows phone can have a potentially good future if they make the phone really secure and catch up on the hardware. They already know that thats why they came out with 41 mp camera etc, but they still got a lot to catch up in terms of hardware.

Nokia is powerful, it is well known. I personally know someone who STILL uses nokia 3310 and its batteries are still sold on ebay. Nokia and microsoft together can be quite a force.

 

[shmotog]

And also...Android is an open system. It does not use proprietary standards. So there is little or no hardware commitment beyond the phone itself. And virtually all apps have free alternatives, so most people are not heavily invested in apps, because most people prefer free apps to paid ones. Thats why Developers still love Apple so much, remember?

Actaully most serious people are heavily invested in apps. I have myself to date spent around £140 in apps, not to mention in-app credit for games. Developers dont love apple,if they did there would be more apps for it.

 

[JeffDenver]

Unlike a lot of people, I'm OS agnostic.

I am sure you believe you are OS agnostic.

I will continue having at least one phone of each OS I find to be usable in the market.

So you will appear credible when claiming "facts" about OS's you don't like.

Over 1/4th of the top 250 Android apps were paid apps at the end of 2013 (28%) so people are definitely paying for applications.

Android is well known for having free alternatives to most apps, and Android users are well known for not wanting to pay for apps.

Shocking Revelation: Android Users Least Likely to Pay for Apps

Up until now, we have focused on iOS apps because they have been around longer, but what about Android? Conventional wisdom (backed by a variety of non-Flurry surveys) is that Android users tend to be less affluent and less willing to pay for things than iOS users. Does the app pricing data support that theory? Resoundingly.

As of April 2013, the average price paid for Android apps (including those where the price was free) was significantly less than for iPhone and iPad apps as shown below. This suggests that Android owners want app content to be free even more than iOS device users, implying that Android users are more tolerant of in-app advertising to subsidize the cost of developing apps.

http://www.intomobile.com/2013/07/18/shocking-revelation-android-users-least-likely-pay-apps/

This is not a new phenomenon. It's been this way since 2009 at least. If you have really spent $200 in apps, you are not the norm on Android.

People do spend money on applications if they feel it's something useful to them.

I agree. But they are a small minority. Most Android users are accustomed to getting apps for free. Even good apps.

 

[JeffDenver]

I thought that is what the term 'subset' would mean, which it does! It's about taking something from the past and making it better, or at least more 'tailored'.

If that is the definition you are using, then Android has already been there for years...how else you you describe Motoblur or Sense or Touchwiz? Android does not appear to be suffering from these "subsets". And there is probably more demand for vanilla android now than there ever was in the past.

Well, that's a nice approach, not one I can agree with though. The way I see it, I have as much right to use facebook app as an ios user, and just like an ios user I also have a right to stop it accessing my camera without my consent.

How badly do you want to use facebook?

You can't say you don't have control. You have complete control. You are making a choice to trust facebook. Android has informed you, in a very clear way IMO, that the app is accessing your camera. It's not in any fine print. It is right there in bold when you install the app.

Business ever makes a loss, ever. A charity does.

LOL! Businesses take losses all the time. Just ask HTC.

Like Google with the Nexus, the OnePlus is being sold at cost. They are making little or no profit on it.

The OnePlus One is so cheap because they're being sold at cost

"Rather than put money towards a large marketing budget, we are focusing on online marketing and community interaction," he said. "Rather than working with retail partners, we rely on selling the device online."

The OnePlus One is so cheap because they're being sold at cost | Android Central

No, it is not permanent. This is advertising for them. Since they are making their money from hardware, the costs will go up eventually (they'd have to).

 

[JeffDenver]

Forgot to mention, take example of the great Moto G, are motorola making a loss as well by offering more for less?

They are not offering more for less. The Moto G is not a flagship product like the OnePlus. It's specs are completely in line with the price.

Each Moto G costs $123 to make; Google takes Nexus-like thin margin approach - Tech2

It costs $123 to make, and they are charging $180+ for it.

 

[JeffDenver]

Actaully windows phone can have a potentially good future if they make the phone really secure and catch up on the hardware. They already know that thats why they came out with 41 mp camera etc, but they still got a lot to catch up in terms of hardware.

Nokia is powerful, it is well known. I personally know someone who STILL uses nokia 3310 and its batteries are still sold on ebay. Nokia and microsoft together can be quite a force.

I know no one who uses a Nokia phone. Not a single person. I've never even seen one in the wild at all. The only reason I know they exist is the internet and commercials.

 

[Kilroy13]

I know no one who uses a Nokia phone. Not a single person. I've never even seen one in the wild at all. The only reason I know they exist is the internet and commercials.

Me neither! Have never seen a Windows phone in the wild either! Haven't seen a blackberry in the wild in ages! Tons of iPhones and androids though!

 

[z33dev33l]

The reason android is preferred is because of GOOGLE, not because of samsung or anyone or anything else.

People buy a smartphone for a few things and GOOGLE offers them better than anyone else, the examples being:
-google maps (beats any other gps app)
-gmail
-google search (the whole integration with google now etc)
-google wallet

After that people use smartphones for financial purposes and most banking apps support either ios or android. most major banks dont offer apps for blackberry for windows phone.

And every one of those points is painfully objective. Google doesn't even have decent offline nav yet so it's useless to me. I'll always prefer Hotmail since if you use Gmail in IE it takes on the classic HTML build which is awful and generally a lot more spam got through.
Google Now still feels like more of a beta than Cortana with it's complete lack of personality and consideration for user experience. It's very robotic and doesn't seem as much like a personal assistant as it does Microsoft Sam. No, I don't care for the snarky retorts or HALO references but I like it to not seem like tech we had two decades ago. Google Search, to me, has always been very basic. Even when Bing was querying Google results and just presenting them better it was much better. I mean, have you done an image or video search on Google? It's a nightmare and terribly unintuitive.
Google Wallet, meh, just like any other wallet. Oh, except unlike the Wallet on my device of choice, it is kept on their servers rather than just my device. Not a place I want my information. Not when the Google Play store has been accidentally hacked twice in as many months.

 

[JeffDenver]

Actaully most serious people are heavily invested in apps.

I agree. But "serious" people are the minority. They are not the norm. Not on Android.

I have myself to date spent around £140 in apps, not to mention in-app credit for games. Developers dont love apple,if they did there would be more apps for it.

The fact that Apple still gets so much developer support despite only a tiny fraction of Android's marketshare says all that needs to be said. At the very least, Apple is equal to Android when it comes to developer support, and a lot of people would argue it has more. The number of Apps in the store is not the same thing as the number of developers. *I* was an Android developer...it takes a lot less effort to be a developer on Android than it does on iOS.

 

[z33dev33l]

Actaully most serious people are heavily invested in apps. I have myself to date spent around £140 in apps, not to mention in-app credit for games. Developers dont love apple,if they did there would be more apps for it.

Number of apps in store =/= Number of quality apps in store.

 

[JeffDenver]

I'll always prefer Hotmail since if you use Gmail in IE it takes on the classic HTML build which is awful and generally a lot more spam got through.

LOL, Hotmail checked every single box for what NOT to do with an email service. I still have my hotmail account. I still get spam on it. Hotmail's spam filter was basically a placebo. It was even worse than Yahoo, and Yahoo was pretty bad. I will never ever trust Microsoft again for webmail after my Hotmail experience. It was a huge waste of my time.

Google Now still feels like more of a beta than Cortana with it's complete lack of personality and consideration for user experience.

Most people do not want a digital assistant to be their best friend...they just want it to work. Cortanna and Siri's "personality" is exactly what I would use as an example of a gimmick feature.

Microsoft already tried this crap with that stupid paperclip avatar in Office...which everyone grew to despise so much it became a cliche of itself. When I say everyone hated it I really mean everyone. I have never come across a single person who thought it was cute and added to the user experience. Mostly people were trying to find ways to turn it off.

Google Search, to me, has always been very basic.

Which is exactly how search should be. It's a tool. It does not need fluff or gimmicks.

Even when Bing was querying Google results and just presenting them better it was much better. I mean, have you done an image or video search on Google? It's a nightmare and terribly unintuitive.

LOL, I have seen tons of examples like this:



I tried this again, just now, on Bing. I got the same result. Everyone I know hates Bing too. Not as much as the paper clip avatar, but close.

 

[z33dev33l]

LOL, Hotmail checked every single box for what NOT to do with an email service. I still have my hotmail account. I still get spam on it. Hotmail's spam filter was basically a placebo. It was even worse than Yahoo, and Yahoo was pretty bad. I will never ever trust Microsoft again for webmail after my Hotmail experience. It was a huge waste of my time.


Most people do not want a digital assistant to be their best friend...they just want it to work. Cortanna and Siri's "personality" is exactly what I would use as an example of a gimmick feature.

Microsoft already tried this crap with that stupid paperclip avatar in Office...which everyone grew to despise so much it became a cliche of itself. When I say everyone hated it I really mean everyone. I have never come across a single person who thought it was cute and added to the user experience. Mostly people were trying to find ways to turn it off.


Which is exactly how search should be. It's a tool. It does not need fluff or gimmicks.


LOL, I have seen tons of examples like this:

View attachment 125037

I tried this again, just now, on Bing. I got the same result. Everyone I know hates Bing too. Not as much as the paper clip avatar, but close.

1. I actually felt very much the same about Google and Gmail. All the spam got through. Nigerian Princes and all. Worst thing that's happened to me with hotmail? I missed a bad offer on a phone that I posted on Craigslist once because the guy triggered the spam filter with his cookie cutter message.

2. Which works in the argument against Siri considering the functionality generally blows but with Windows Phone it has pretty much the same functionality and goes toe to toe with Google Now plus a decent voice and some personality. It's pretty great. You should try it.

3. Meh, some people use their search one way, some another. I suppose we use ours different. I like that I have better video and image search that doesn't slack on the general search and rewards me for using it.

 

[A895]

Number of apps in store =/= Number of quality apps in store.

Windows Phone should know that first hand.

Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App

 

[z33dev33l]

Windows Phone should know that first hand.

Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App

We do, we don't have many apps but you also won't find 15,000 fart soundboard apps like you will on other operating systems. Just few apps with high quality.

 

[JeffDenver]

1. I actually felt very much the same about Google and Gmail. All the spam got through. Nigerian Princes and all.

Have never had that happen even once. Once I tag something as spam, it stays gone. And it's been like that for years. I'm not the only one to have this issue:
Who has Better Spam Protection? Yahoo, Gmail & Hotmail Tested

My results are very similar to that. Hotmail might be better now, but after dealing with it's spam for years the damage is done and I'm not going back. I love Windows, but I avoid MS services like the plague now.

2. Which works in the argument against Siri considering the functionality generally blows but with Windows Phone it has pretty much the same functionality and goes toe to toe with Google Now plus a decent voice and some personality. It's pretty great. You should try it.

I don't have any reason too...it is not doing anything that Google Now does not already do. And frankly, the idea of a video game avatar as an assistant is not appealing to me. I prefer digital assistants to be generic.

3. Meh, some people use their search one way, some another.

Well, this is not an isolated incident. Lots of people hate Bing. I know some people that use it because they are indifferent...I don't know anyone that uses it because they actually prefer it. Do a poll on any non-windows forum and you will see most people don't like Bing.

 

[A895]

We do, we don't have many apps but you also won't find 15,000 fart soundboard apps like you will on other operating systems. Just few apps with high quality.

Stop that. The most common complaint on wpcentral forums is that apps lack in quality. Whatsapp was so bad it was pulled from the store. Please, don't give a damn excuse talking about Android apps lack in quality because Android met and passed WP into terms of app quality. And that's not even going over iOS which is even more higher quality.


And you were mentioning farts:

http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/search?q=fart

Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App

 

[JeffDenver]

We do, we don't have many apps but you also won't find 15,000 fart soundboard apps like you will on other operating systems. Just few apps with high quality.

Uh huh

Search results for "fart" | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (United States)

That's just the ones for WP8.

 

[z33dev33l]

Stop that. The most common complaint on wpcentral forums is that apps lack in quality. Whatsapp was so bad it was pulled from the store. Please, don't give a damn excuse talking about Android apps lack in quality because Android met and passed WP into terms of app quality. And that's not even going over iOS which is even more higher quality.


And you were mentioning farts:

Search results for "fart" | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (United States)

Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App

WhatsApp was very briefly pulled from the store due to incompatibility with 8.1 and was swiftly returned. It has a fine app. I mean, if you want Kik or something that's been abandoned for three years then yeah, you'll get a subpar app but compare two frequently updated apps, AndroidCentral vs WPCentral for instance, you'll see a much higher quality Windows Phone App. Not to mention we have a Snapchat and Instagram client that both blow away the default clients, the new revamped Facebook App is absolutely unprecedented in terms of quality and is no longer a half baked port of the iOS app. Apps in general are better because of the universal design language and the developer environment. Sure, if someone's porting an app, I'm prepared for disappointment. Otherwise, Windows Phone apps are awesome.