I find this odd.

[shmotog]

It's a fact Android is leading. Nobody can deny that.

However its not only about android and blackberry and ios and windows phone as it looks.

You're forgetting Cyanogenmod. Eventually Android is going to break up, into subsets like Cyanogenmod which offer more privacy related features. Android Kitkat removed AppOps which is a major drawback for anyone wanting a bit of decent privacy from any odd app accessing your camera needlessly.

For this same reason, Blackberry has hope. If it catches up with up to date hardware with a better top of the line screen and such, then it can easily compete with android, simply because it offers more security.

The best brand of mobile nowadays is LG, hands down. They have top of the line technology, excellent build quality, and their screen is second to none, well maybe second to equal to samsung, but samsung is poor on quality.

 

[A895]

It's a fact Android is leading. Nobody can deny that.

However its not only about android and blackberry and ios and windows phone as it looks.

You're forgetting Cyanogenmod. Eventually Android is going to break up, into subsets like Cyanogenmod which offer more privacy related features. Android Kitkat removed AppOps which is a major drawback for anyone wanting a bit of decent privacy from any odd app accessing your camera needlessly.

For this same reason, Blackberry has hope. If it catches up with up to date hardware with a better top of the line screen and such, then it can easily compete with android, simply because it offers more security.

The best brand of mobile nowadays is LG, hands down. They have top of the line technology, excellent build quality, and their screen is second to none, well maybe second to equal to samsung, but samsung is poor on quality.

3 things with your theory.

1.) Android can't break into different subsets, and definitely not for the reasons you outlined.

2.) BlackBerry breaking back into the consumer space successfully is a pipe dream

3.) Samsung is a much more known brand than LG, and saying Samsung is poor on quality is your own subjective opinion.

Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App

 

[shmotog]

3 things with your theory.

1.) Android can't break into different subsets, and definitely not for the reasons you outlined.

You forgot to mention why. Tell me how and why android cannot break into subsets when it already HAS with ColorOS, Cyanogenmod and even Nokia N2. And regarding the reasons I outlined, well, even iphone offers you to turn off camera access for certain apps if you want. Blackberry does. Android DID until 4.3 jellybean, with kitkat it does not in any manner whatsoever. Only the subsets like cyanogenmod offer it, unless ofcourse you root the kitkat android.

Look up OnePlus One. Runs on cyanogenmod, has better specs than samsung galaxy s5, beats it in hardware in EVERY single way, and is less than half the price. That's future right there.

2.) BlackBerry breaking back into the consumer space successfully is a pipe dream

Not really, for the reasons I highlighted, it would be highly appealing to corporations. I believe it still is widely used by government organisations.

3.) Samsung is a much more known brand than LG, and saying Samsung is poor on quality is your own subjective opinion.

Wrong. LG is and has been there longer and stronger than samsung. Numerous cases of samsung galaxys batteries catching fire. Compare any LG phones body with samsung galaxy s2 sIII or even s4 and you'll notice the difference in quality of the materials used. Nexus 5 was made by LG as well.

 

[z33dev33l]

You forgot to mention why. Tell me how and why android cannot break into subsets when it already HAS with ColorOS, Cyanogenmod and even Nokia N2. And regarding the reasons I outlined, well, even iphone offers you to turn off camera access for certain apps if you want. Blackberry does. Android DID until 4.3 jellybean, with kitkat it does not in any manner whatsoever. Only the subsets like cyanogenmod offer it, unless ofcourse you root the kitkat android.

Look up OnePlus One. Runs on cyanogenmod, has better specs than samsung galaxy s5, beats it in hardware in EVERY single way, and is less than half the price. That's future right there.

I agree to some degree. Nokia and Amazon for instance. Were Samsung to drop Android and go Tizen, I could see Android splitting off into several different branches in a similar manner. They really are the corner stone of the OS.

Not really, for the reasons I highlighted, it would be highly appealing to corporations. I believe it still is widely used by government organisations.

At this point, they have their eyes set on the wrong targets. As it stands, Microsoft has been successfully stealing away at that business user niche with it's exceptional security and business features not found on other OSes. Blackberry is past it's prime. The only differentiating factor at present is the Department of Defense who has specifically built most of their programs to run only with the bleeding OS.

Wrong. LG is and has been there longer and stronger than samsung. Numerous cases of samsung galaxys batteries catching fire. Compare any LG phones body with samsung galaxy s2 sIII or even s4 and you'll notice the difference in quality of the materials used. Nexus 5 was made by LG as well.

As he stated, your opinion is mostly subjective here and I certainly don't feel they have it down pat. For instance, their cameras are generally subpar (Of course I haven't toyed with the G3 yet), the G3 was reviewed as having issue processing text due to the high pixel density and is regarded by most as overkill since, spoiler alert, you can't tell the difference on a screen that size. I'd argue that in terms of build quality, Nokia, Motorola, Apple and Blackberry destroy the competition. Oh, and since you threw age in there, Nokia and Motorola have been in the business much longer than LG

 

[A895]

You forgot to mention why. Tell me how and why android cannot break into subsets when it already HAS with ColorOS, Cyanogenmod and even Nokia N2. And regarding the reasons I outlined, well, even iphone offers you to turn off camera access for certain apps if you want. Blackberry does. Android DID until 4.3 jellybean, with kitkat it does not in any manner whatsoever. Only the subsets like cyanogenmod offer it, unless ofcourse you root the kitkat android.

Look up OnePlus One. Runs on cyanogenmod, has better specs than samsung galaxy s5, beats it in hardware in EVERY single way, and is less than half the price. That's future right there.


Not really, for the reasons I highlighted, it would be highly appealing to corporations. I believe it still is widely used by government organisations.

Wrong. LG is and has been there longer and stronger than samsung. Numerous cases of samsung galaxys batteries catching fire. Compare any LG phones body with samsung galaxy s2 sIII or even s4 and you'll notice the difference in quality of the materials used. Nexus 5 was made by LG as well.

1.) Ok, I'm pretty sure you are unaware how Android works now.

2.) Government organizations aren't consumers. I said consumers in the post you quoted, even then with Samsung Knox devices, and iPhones being approved for use by the government, BlackBerry will struggle in enterprise too.

3.) I think you are forgetting Samsung is still the most profitable Android OEM and the most popular smartphone manufacturer on the planet. Even then the rest of what you said is subjective. You keep bringing your own personal feelings about Samsung as facts.

Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App

 

[JeffDenver]

You're forgetting Cyanogenmod. Eventually Android is going to break up, into subsets like Cyanogenmod which offer more privacy related features.

It will never be severed from Android. Ever. At worst, it will become like a vendor skin.

For this same reason, Blackberry has hope. If it catches up with up to date hardware with a better top of the line screen and such, then it can easily compete with android, simply because it offers more security.

It already offers more security now...that doesn't seem to be helping it. Security is obviously not the only variable.

Neither is hardware. Blackberry is in the same position WP was in years ago. It is a new OS in a mature market with no features that make it stand out and no native app store. Blackberry will fail not because it sucks, but because it is superfluous. Even the security stuff can be duplicated on Android (you just cited an example with Cyanogenmod). At least WP had a novel UI...BB does not even have that. New hardware is not going to save Blackberry.

 

[JeffDenver]

You forgot to mention why. Tell me how and why android cannot break into subsets when it already HAS with ColorOS, Cyanogenmod and even Nokia N2.

How is Cyanogenmod a break? It is normal Android with additional stuff added on. It's not a subset. Anything you can do on Android, you can also do on Cyanogenmod.

If that is what you consider a "subset" then it is nothing to worry about IMO.

And regarding the reasons I outlined, well, even iphone offers you to turn off camera access for certain apps if you want.

Any app you install will tell you if it has camera access. If you do not want to risk the camera being turned on with that app...don't install it. problem solved.

Blackberry does. Android DID until 4.3 jellybean, with kitkat it does not in any manner whatsoever.

So what? Whats to stop Android from just adding this back in if there is a demand?

Look up OnePlus One. Runs on cyanogenmod, has better specs than samsung galaxy s5, beats it in hardware in EVERY single way, and is less than half the price. That's future right there.

That is not the future...it is half the price because they are eating a loss on it to get exposure. That is not the normal price (the nexus price is not normal either and for the same reason).

It's a smart move on their part to do it, but I am not fooling myself that it is permanent.

 

[JeffDenver]

Were Samsung to drop Android and go Tizen, I could see Android splitting off into several different branches in a similar manner.

Were Samsung to do that they would fail miserably. Because nobody wants a touchwiz OS. Tizen is going to meet chirping crickets. No one is clamoring for Tizen phones.

At this point, they have their eyes set on the wrong targets. As it stands, Microsoft has been successfully stealing away at that business user niche

LOL...it's been years, and they are not even in double digits yet. Android was released at the end of 2008 and was already in double digits by 2010. There is nothing at all impressive about WP's progress. They made the same mistakes Blackberry did, they just corrected it sooner.

 

[z33dev33l]

Were Samsung to do that they would fail miserably. Because nobody wants a touchwiz OS. Tizen is going to meet chirping crickets. No one is clamoring for Tizen phones.


LOL...it's been years, and they are not even in double digits yet. Android was released at the end of 2008 and was already in double digits by 2010. There is nothing at all impressive about WP's progress. They made the same mistakes Blackberry did, they just corrected it sooner.

Again, Android entered a market with no competition. Windows Phone entered a saturated market. Also, if they slapped the name Galaxy on Tizen phones, I'd bet that people wouldn't be able to tell the difference since to a plethora of people, Touchwiz is Android

 

[A895]

Again, Android entered a market with no competition. Windows Phone entered a saturated market. Also, if they slapped the name Galaxy on Tizen phones, I'd bet that people wouldn't be able to tell the difference since to a plethora of people, Touchwiz is Android

A few things:

1.) Androids competition was BlackBerry, Windows Mobile, and iOS

2.) You want to say saturated, what you really mean is that people don't want Windows Phones

3.) People aren't stupid as you claim, people know about the Play Store, and if it was notably absent from said Galaxy Phones people wouldn't get it. Samsung does have brand recognition, but at the same time Android is a known brand as well and Android has the Play Store where consumers know where to go for apps.

Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App

 

[z33dev33l]

A few things:

1.) Androids competition was BlackBerry, Windows Mobile, and iOS

2.) You want to say saturated, what you really mean is that people don't want Windows Phones

3.) People aren't stupid as you claim, people know about the Play Store, and if it was notably absent from said Galaxy Phones people wouldn't get it. Samsung does have brand recognition, but at the same time Android is a known brand as well and Android has the Play Store where consumers know where to go for apps.

Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App

BBOS was a classic style qwerty phone and windows mobile was a pocket PC. They had no interest in touch interfaces or, In WinMo's case, the touch experience. WinMo was designed to use with a stylus if it was touch at all and was predominately built for non-touch devices just like Blackberry. HTC just haphazardly slapped it on touch devices and then a few others followed suit there. It wasn't the intention of the OS though. Thus, the market was not saturated at that point. In 2008, less than 7 percent of cell phone owners owned a smartphone and there were no viable and decent options outside of Android at it's introduction. Yeah, the market wasn't saturated then. By the time Windows Phone came out, that number had quadrupled in large part because of Android. By that point, it was nigh impossible for a new OS to really gain foothold.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Tizen Store just says Store under it and has a very similar brief case style icon with just a different logo on it... Considering it will be able to run Android apps and people will flock to anything Samsung does, I don't see that posing much of a problem.

 

[A895]

BBOS was a classic style qwerty phone and windows mobile was a pocket PC. They had no interest in touch interfaces or, In WinMo's case, the touch experience. WinMo was designed to use with a stylus if it was touch at all and was predominately built for non-touch devices just like Blackberry. HTC just haphazardly slapped it on touch devices and then a few others followed suit there. It wasn't the intention of the OS though. Thus, the market was not saturated at that point. In 2008, less than 7 percent of cell phone owners owned a smartphone and there were no viable and decent options outside of Android at it's introduction. Yeah, the market wasn't saturated then. By the time Windows Phone came out, that number had quadrupled in large part because of Android. By that point, it was nigh impossible for a new OS to really gain foothold.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Tizen Store just says Store under it and has a very similar brief case style icon with just a different logo on it... Considering it will be able to run Android apps and people will flock to anything Samsung does, I don't see that posing much of a problem.

1.) Android had competition which is in contrast to your earlier statement that "Android had no competition"

2.) If the market is so saturated Windows Phone should just be scraped then eh? The market is no saturated yet, but it is slowing down compared to 3 years ago even.

3.) You are still assuming people are stupid. People know what the play store and Android is and it will be publicly known Tizen devices are not Android devices. Another thing is Android developers have to approve their apps to go to Tizen, sound a lot like another OS that can run Android apps yet gets little love from Devs. You are assuming too much about Tizen. It's not even on the market yet. Much less there is an announced device for larger markets like the U.S.

Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App

 

[z33dev33l]

1.) Android had competition which is in contrast to your earlier statement that "Android had no competition"

2.) If the market is so saturated Windows Phone should just be scraped then eh? The market is no saturated yet, but it is slowing down compared to 3 years ago even.

3.) You are still assuming people are stupid. People know what the play store and Android is and it will be publicly known Tizen devices are not Android devices. Another thing is Android developers have to approve their apps to go to Tizen, sound a lot like another OS that can run Android apps yet gets little love from Devs. You are assuming too much about Tizen. It's not even on the market yet. Much less there is an announced device for larger markets like the U.S.

Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App

It entered a market in which there was no competition in it's field. It was a budget alternative to the iPhone that was available to other users that weren't on ATT. No other smartphone OS here stateside provided that. WinMo was a pocket PC which is massively different from a smartphone and was designed for the Blackberry style and Blackberry was, well, blackberry. The QWERTY Keyboard phone is hardly comparable to the full touch experience utilized by iOS and then Android.

 

[JeffDenver]

Again, Android entered a market with no competition.

Again, that statement is factually incorrect. You keep repeating this as if repetition will make it true heh heh.



There was already a smartphone market when Android came along. Nokia and Blackberry and Apple had already been selling smartphones for years. Android did not debut in some kind of vacuum. Android succeeded in drawing new users because it was better than it's competitors. Bonus: This chart shows Microsoft with a HIGHER marketshare than Android, LOL.

None of these excuses would explain how WP is going to overcome the competition anyway. If anything, it makes it far LESS likely that WP can succeed. Android already does everything WP can do, and has a huge installed base and a head start of years.

Windows Phone entered a saturated market.

We have been saying that all along. That is why WP is going nowhere fast. There is nothing they offer that is better than what is already out there.

Also, if they slapped the name Galaxy on Tizen phones, I'd bet that people wouldn't be able to tell the difference since to a plethora of people, Touchwiz is Android

So why have they not already done so? Your speculation is not objective fact by default.

 

[z33dev33l]

Again, that statement is factually incorrect. You keep repeating this as if repetition will make it true heh heh.

View attachment 125002

There was already a smartphone market when Android came along. Nokia and Blackberry and Apple had already been selling smartphones for years. Android did not debut in some kind of vacuum. Android succeeded in drawing new users because it was better than it's competitors. Bonus: This chart shows Microsoft with a HIGHER marketshare than Android, LOL.

None of these excuses would explain how WP is going to overcome the competition anyway. If anything, it makes it far LESS likely that WP can succeed. Android already does everything WP can do, and has a huge installed base and a head start of years.


We have been saying that all along. That is why WP is going nowhere fast. There is nothing they offer that is better than what is already out there.


So why have they not already done so? Your speculation is not objective fact by default.

For the first two, I have only to say that you should read the conversation as it went after that post and that they do offer better but people are already invested in smartphone ecosystems. When I turned to windows Phone, I'd spent just under $200 in apps from Play Store. That's not a hit most are willing to take.

As for the third, they don't have much of a patent portfolio and bitterness from other OEM's without being under Google's wing in that regard could lead them to being sued out of most countries. Sure, they can no longer sue for arbitrary ideas but Sammy infringes on so many patents so frequently that it'd not be tough to do so.

 

[JeffDenver]

For the first two, I have only to say that you should read the conversation as it went after that post and that they do offer better but people are already invested in smartphone ecosystems. When I turned to windows Phone, I'd spent just under $200 in apps from Play Store.

So why did you leave Android if you had already invested so much money? Didn't you just say people won't leave an ecosystem after they have invested money into it?

And also...Android is an open system. It does not use proprietary standards. So there is little or no hardware commitment beyond the phone itself. And virtually all apps have free alternatives, so most people are not heavily invested in apps, because most people prefer free apps to paid ones. Thats why Developers still love Apple so much, remember?

So why have they not already done so? Your speculation is not objective fact by default.

they don't have much of a patent portfolio and bitterness from other OEM's without being under Google's wing in that regard could lead them to being sued out of most countries. Sure, they can no longer sue for arbitrary ideas but Sammy infringes on so many patents so frequently that it'd not be tough to do so.

That seems to imply they have no incentive to switch to Tizen then. Since that situation has not changed and probably won't in the foreseeable future. You are back where you started.

 

[A895]

It entered a market in which there was no competition in it's field. It was a budget alternative to the iPhone that was available to other users that weren't on ATT. No other smartphone OS here stateside provided that. WinMo was a pocket PC which is massively different from a smartphone and was designed for the Blackberry style and Blackberry was, well, blackberry. The QWERTY Keyboard phone is hardly comparable to the full touch experience utilized by iOS and then Android.

Jesus, stick to your original argument. You said they had no competition when they obviously did which you are now stating.

Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App

 

[z33dev33l]

So why did you leave Android if you had already invested so much money? Didn't you just say people won't leave an ecosystem after they have invested money into it?

Unlike a lot of people, I'm OS agnostic. I will continue having at least one phone of each OS I find to be usable in the market. This was the case even then with my N9, my Dell Streak and my HD7. I didn't think the iPhone was usable prior to iOS 7 by my standards. I shifted to predominately Windows Phone because it had the best experience, offered Netflix which Android didn't get til months later, had exclusive games that blew away most other OSes at the time (Ilomilo is still the greatest puzzle game of all time in my opinion) and generally because it was social-centric before any other OS was. Social networking was cooked into the OS to every degree without a need for installing apps. Contact management has always been a pain to me on Android and upon signing in with my account on the HD7, everything clearly laid itself out and figured itself out. It pulled me away because it was the phone that seemed to focus on the end-user.

And also...Android is an open system. It does not use proprietary standards. So there is little or no hardware commitment beyond the phone itself. And virtually all apps have free alternatives, so most people are not heavily invested in apps, because most people prefer free apps to paid ones. Thats why Developers still love Apple so much, remember?

Over 1/4th of the top 250 Android apps were paid apps at the end of 2013 (28%) so people are definitely paying for applications. People do spend money on applications if they feel it's something useful to them.

That seems to imply they have no incentive to switch to Tizen then. Since that situation has not changed and probably won't in the foreseeable future. You are back where you started.

They've endured enough litigation. I don't feel as though they'd be shy about doing so again. I'm not saying they will, I'm saying they could.

 

[shmotog]

1.) Ok, I'm pretty sure you are unaware how Android works now.

Well, so this is your response to when I asked you to explain yourself, nice.

2.) Government organizations aren't consumers. I said consumers in the post you quoted, even then with Samsung Knox devices, and iPhones being approved for use by the government, BlackBerry will struggle in enterprise too.

Government consumes, just like any person. Well ill agree to that point that blackberry just might die out, but my point is, there is a demand for smartphones for security concious people. In fact it will only increase as we come to rely more and more on smartphones. I use my phone as a scanner, printer, for messages, for calls, for emails, for calendar, literally my whole life. I do my shopping there, I make my bank payments from it. A lot of people don't do it yet. I can say for a fact that most people who don't use their phone for financial purposes don't do it cause they simply don't trust their phones. I personally know a lot who say "phones get viruses you shouldnt use your credit card on there". Blackberry might die out, but the example it led in terms on security would be replicated and would in the future become a major factor.

3.) I think you are forgetting Samsung is still the most profitable Android OEM and the most popular smartphone manufacturer on the planet. Even then the rest of what you said is subjective. You keep bringing your own personal feelings about Samsung as facts.

I have nothing against samsung as such, it's just that they have a history of their batteries catching fire, they have a history of having poor plasticy chassis, and they have a history of putting exceptional amount of bloatware. There was a time when blackberry was perhaps the most profitable OS, it doesnt mean anything.

 

[shmotog]

How is Cyanogenmod a break? It is normal Android with additional stuff added on. It's not a subset. Anything you can do on Android, you can also do on Cyanogenmod.

If that is what you consider a "subset" then it is nothing to worry about IMO.

I thought that is what the term 'subset' would mean, which it does! It's about taking something from the past and making it better, or at least more 'tailored'.

Any app you install will tell you if it has camera access. If you do not want to risk the camera being turned on with that app...don't install it. problem solved.

Well, that's a nice approach, not one I can agree with though. The way I see it, I have as much right to use facebook app as an ios user, and just like an ios user I also have a right to stop it accessing my camera without my consent. Just because I'm told in fineprint doesnt help me, privacy is everyones right.

So what? Whats to stop Android from just adding this back in if there is a demand?

They might add it. google was highly critisized by EFF about it.

That is not the future...it is half the price because they are eating a loss on it to get exposure. That is not the normal price (the nexus price is not normal either and for the same reason).

It's a smart move on their part to do it, but I am not fooling myself that it is permanent.

No business ever makes a loss, ever. A charity does.
It will be permanent when the monopoly of big players would finish slowly.