VZW Sending me a Droid Charge Loaner

[Mortiel]

I agree with much of what you're saying, but you're also partly misrepresenting the issue. Nidaja is not asking for replacement phones on a "whim", he just wants a working phone. I think Verizon is also preferring to blame the phone rather than correctly diagnose and resolve the real issues. 9 phones is ridiculous. Clearly this is not a hardware issue that will be fixed by another replacement phone. You're so sure it's a software issue but you haven't been able to account for why some people are plagued with awful rebooting problems and others don't have this problem at all or have it, like you and me, very infrequently. I haven't noticed a reboot since May 27th. Same firmware. Obviously, there are other variables. I've asked you elsewhere what you think these other variables are. And Nidaja is not even talking about the reboot issue here. He's talking about people being able to hear him when he makes a call. You also did not understand what he was saying about car mounts and cases--he said he was willing to eat that cost.

And, by the way, Verizon does have a policy to handle people who misrepresent problems to get a replacement phone. If a returned phone obviously does not have a problem, they will charge the customer for the replacement. That's obviously difficult to demonstrate with intermittant problems that may also be partly network related, so I expect Verizon to be conservative in applying this policy.

Now, Nidaja. Seriously, 9 phones all with the exact same problem? Or did some phones have light leakage, or poor screen fitment, or rebooting problems, or data connectivity issues, or GPS problems, etc?

A few minor corrections:

First, there is no penalty for a device that is returned and labeled as NTF (no trouble found). About 50% of all Android device returned are labeled NTF. Why would Verizon charge somebody if its an intermittent issue not easily identifiable by repair facilities?

Secondly, I have been working on the Verizon-side team diagnosing the issue with rebooting. Have you not noticed me getting ideas from you all here and sharing my own? Yes, that was actually work related. Verizon was NOT blaming someone else (low-level representatives aside), and to be frank sending anyone a warranty replacement due to rebooting issues has a rather poor chance of solving the problem. As I identified in another topic, the issue WAS diagnosed. There were other variables, however the root was in the firmware, which is the SAME in every phone. There were several other factors, both from outside the phone as well as inside, that increased and decrease the severity of rebooting.

Lastly, I am sorry if I think that someone stating they should get whatever phone they want for free as being a whim. Wanting just a working phone is, in this day and age, a necessity. Flagship devices are not. I can tell any of you how to get a working phone for free, but it will not be a next-gen flagship device. Not even close. Not only that, whatever top-of-the-line device you think you want, it WILL have issues. This is the price you pay for cutting-edge.

So what is it really? A working phone or the next cutting edge device?

 

[Mortiel]

To all, I'm a lady

To Robrecht: I don't think I can mute the phone from 5 feet away with my mind powers though! This morning, not 45 minutes ago as I was getting ready for work, talking on the phone which was laying on my bed, speaker phone on. Had been talking for probably 11 minutes, when the caller started said, "Are you there? Where'd you go? Hello? Helllo?" This has happened exactly in that manner, and multiple different configurations of where I was, whether I was on speaker or not, whether I was talking to someone on a cell phone or not, within the same state that I live...ETC.

No, I've had zero other issues with this phone. Not even reboots. No light leaks, no jack issues, NOTHING.

Mortiel: So by your logic, if you bought a car that routinely but inconsistently stopped running while you were driving, you'd find it acceptable to keep it? I call bullsh** on that. After 9 replacements of the same make/model/year, you'd keep accepting the same solution, on the grounds that you wouldn't want to hurt Ford's bottom line? I call bullsh** You wouldn't eventually say to your dealer "Look, this isn't working out, I'd like a comparable replacement. Give me that (fill in the blank) and we will call it even." I do believe you WOULD.

I have hours of documented time on the phone with VZ. I have pages of marked calls indicating when/where/who the problem occurs. I'm NOT some adolescent tech junkie, nor am I an incompetent user. I'm a 50 year old adult who has been a customer with Verizon for 12 years, pays my substantial bills every month, and expects to get what I pay for.

So, get off my ass, read what I've written carefully, and maybe even offer an apology for assuming that I'm trying to play the system.

Firstly, I never said you were playing the system. I just questioned your definition of "reasonable". I then illustrated how your idea of "reasonable" could bankrupt Verizon in a short period of time.

Now to continue the debate of logic, if my car is still under warranty, I can just ship it to the dealership and they will send me a certified like new car of a slightly more expensive for free? Not only that, once my contract is up, I can purchase a brand new car at 50-75% off the MSRP and just bill it to my account?!? You make me that deal, I will agree to whatever you say. Not only that, demanding a newer car once it comes out for free in exchange for your defective car? Tell me a dealership that will make that deal.

The point is that the wireless industry works differently than any other business with few exceptions. Very few other business sell you heavily discounted equipment every 20 months, replace the product in less than a week if it fails for any defect, and even makes special concessions to send people different models of that product also for free. To be honest, the mass majority of people, myself included, have gotten spoiled by how the wireless industry works, especially in regards to replacements. Almost any other product you buy with a warranty has to be taken to a specific place to undergo repair. If its electronics, you have to ship it to the manufacturer and be without it for weeks, and often have to pay for shipping. Deductibles and fees may have to be paid as well.

Since electronics have such a high chance of failure compared to other products, it makes many people upset. It is completely understandable for someone to be upset. However, logic should also come into play somewhere... Works your angles and use what resources you have to make a business work for you, and don't just stand there demanding a handout. A business is a cold machine and has no regard for human life, and will always shut you out.

This is why I have the outlook I do. I had this outlook before I even worked for Verizon. You give an inch to someone and they will take a mile. Its the "law of the jungle", so to speak. In the technology world, not even an inch can be spared, and a mile is disaster. However, if you mix compromise with leverage, you can come to an acceptable resolution for everyone.

If you know what you really need from a phone, not what you want, then PM me and I will give you a few routes to go to get it. I already know the leverage needed, however, be prepared: You may need to compromise a little to get what you want, although not in some of the areas you think.

 

[Edwill86]

6... even 9 Thunderbolts?

What the hell are you guys doing to your phones to go through that many? I feel like even in the most extreme situations, your total number of replacement phones shouldn't even begin to approach NINE.

I've had the same one since launch day, works great.

My father and I have had the same one since launch day.
I think some ppl just dont get that bleeding edge tech is not perfect. This is the first LTE and eHRPD 3g device. its just the way it is.

 

[Nidaja]

Spent some time today on the phone with VZ, and on Monday I will have a brand new Charge, a car dock, a desktop dock, a case, and screen protectors, all for $0.00.

If there was a release date for the Bionic on the horizon, that phone would have been sent to me, but as the rep said "The Bionic may never be released", and since the TB refused to transmit my voice over 3 phone calls today, I opted for solving this today.

Verizon rep was charming, horrified by my experience with this phone, and willing to give me anything. And did not seemed shocked by my calm, but clearly stated and reasonable requests for a solution. Didn't bat an eye.

Not caving, being polite and reasonable does in fact, work. And I got what I wanted: " I'll get a working, 4G, 4.3 screen phone on my current unlimited data plan."

Chalk one up for the CONSUMER.

 

[robrecht]

First, there is no penalty for a device that is returned and labeled as NTF (no trouble found).

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I read about the Verizon policy I referred to above. So, what do you do if someone repeatedly claims their phone is defective when it is not? How many times do you give them a CLNR when they're obviously abusing the policy? I would imagine that at some point Verizon would eventually void their warranty, but you still would not charge them for a phone they received under false pretenses? Is there another finding besides NTF? I used to repair electronics when I was in high school and terms such as NTF or CNVC (could not verify complaint) were quite common as intermittant problems are oftentimes very hard to duplicate. But there is a difference between a problem that cannot be verified and someone who is commiting fraud. Verizon doesn't make any distinction here?

About 50% of all Android device returned are labeled NTF.

And are these recycled to other unwitting customers? I readily believe it.

Why would Verizon charge somebody if its an intermittent issue not easily identifiable by repair facilities?

They should not. Re-read my post; I never said they should or would.

BTW, what does "billable" mean on all of these NTF tickets:
Verizon Global Wholesale | Trouble Admin Help Center | Codes | Disposition Codes South

Secondly, I have been working on the Verizon-side team diagnosing the issue with rebooting. Have you not noticed me getting ideas from you all here and sharing my own? Yes, that was actually work related. Verizon was NOT blaming someone else (low-level representatives aside), and to be frank sending anyone a warranty replacement due to rebooting issues has a rather poor chance of solving the problem. As I identified in another topic, the issue WAS diagnosed. There were other variables, however the root was in the firmware, which is the SAME in every phone. There were several other factors, both from outside the phone as well as inside, that increased and decrease the severity of rebooting.

Excuse me, but I was referring exactly to these discussions so there's no need to ask if I've noticed them. But when it has been pointed out to you that there must be other factors, and you are directly asked what you think these other factors are, you do not answer. And, as for low-level Verizon employees blaming someone else, I believe yourself claimed that 'Qualcomm is the culprit' until you were called on it and retracted that statement. But, thank you for finally conceding that the issue was not solely related to the firmware. Why wouldn't you do that in the other thread where I tried to discuss this with you?

 

[robrecht]

The point is that the wireless industry works differently than any other business with few exceptions. Very few other business sell you heavily discounted equipment every 20 months, replace the product in less than a week if it fails for any defect, and even makes special concessions to send people different models of that product also for free. To be honest, the mass majority of people, myself included, have gotten spoiled by how the wireless industry works, especially in regards to replacements. Almost any other product you buy with a warranty has to be taken to a specific place to undergo repair. If its electronics, you have to ship it to the manufacturer and be without it for weeks, and often have to pay for shipping. Deductibles and fees may have to be paid as well.

But Verizon is not in the business of manufacturing or selling phones. They subsidize phones for people that are contracting for their wireless service. Service industries necessarily work differently than OEM manufacterers.

... Works your angles and use what resources you have to make a business work for you, and don't just stand there demanding a handout. ... .

Lastly, I am sorry if I think that someone stating they should get whatever phone they want for free as being a whim.

The point is, your hypothetical musings aside, Nidaja was not demanding a handout, nor did she say that she should get whatever she wants for free. Your musings about hypothetical customers seem rather disrespectful of real customers that you are paid to serve.

 

[robrecht]

Spent some time today on the phone with VZ, and on Monday I will have a brand new Charge, a car dock, a desktop dock, a case, and screen protectors, all for $0.00.

If there was a release date for the Bionic on the horizon, that phone would have been sent to me, but as the rep said "The Bionic may never be released", and since the TB refused to transmit my voice over 3 phone calls today, I opted for solving this today.

Verizon rep was charming, horrified by my experience with this phone, and willing to give me anything. And did not seemed shocked by my calm, but clearly stated and reasonable requests for a solution. Didn't bat an eye.

Not caving, being polite and reasonable does in fact, work. And I got what I wanted: " I'll get a working, 4G, 4.3 screen phone on my current unlimited data plan."

Chalk one up for the CONSUMER.

Good job. There are always reasonable people at Verizon. Sometimes you just have to do a little bit of legwork to find them.

 

[FrankXS]

The point is that the wireless industry works differently than any other business with few exceptions.

Although I do generally agree that VZW's policies up to now (and some other cellular vendors) have been too lenient, surely costing them more than the policies were worth in PR, I will also say that the reason the cellular industry works differently than other industries is primarily because you are tied to a contract. Rented and user located equipment from companies where you have a contractual obligation to finish the term (like DSL pricing for agreeing to a 3-year term, for instance) is often replaced/repaired with more leniency than if you did not have a continuing contract with the vendor. It's all a matter of degree.

-Frank

 

[Mortiel]

But Verizon is not in the business of manufacturing or selling phones. They subsidize phones for people that are contracting for their wireless service. Service industries necessarily work differently than OEM manufacterers.

The point is, your hypothetical musings aside, Nidaja was not demanding a handout, nor did she say that she should get whatever she wants for free. Your musings about hypothetical customers seem rather disrespectful of real customers that you are paid to serve.

Actually, I base my "musings" off my own personal standards. To me, anything given for free is a hand out.

Not only that, but Verizon is a wireless RETAILER. This means they sell products and services associated with wireless technology. If you think Verizon is not in the business of selling phones, you have obviously missed 35% of their advertising budget.

 

[Mortiel]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I read about the Verizon policy I referred to above. So, what do you do if someone repeatedly claims their phone is defective when it is not? How many times do you give them a CLNR when they're obviously abusing the policy? I would imagine that at some point Verizon would eventually void their warranty, but you still would not charge them for a phone they received under false pretenses? Is there another finding besides NTF? I used to repair electronics when I was in high school and terms such as NTF or CNVC (could not verify complaint) were quite common as intermittant problems are oftentimes very hard to duplicate. But there is a difference between a problem that cannot be verified and someone who is commiting fraud. Verizon doesn't make any distinction here?

And are these recycled to other unwitting customers? I readily believe it.

They should not. Re-read my post; I never said they should or would.

BTW, what does "billable" mean on all of these NTF tickets:
Verizon Global Wholesale | Trouble Admin Help Center | Codes | Disposition Codes South

Excuse me, but I was referring exactly to these discussions so there's no need to ask if I've noticed them. But when it has been pointed out to you that there must be other factors, and you are directly asked what you think these other factors are, you do not answer. And, as for low-level Verizon employees blaming someone else, I believe yourself claimed that 'Qualcomm is the culprit' until you were called on it and retracted that statement. But, thank you for finally conceding that the issue was not solely related to the firmware. Why wouldn't you do that in the other thread where I tried to discuss this with you?

There are many facets of my job that are seen and unseen. Just because o do not respond does not mean I am being avoidant. If you would prefer a direct response, then please PM me.

What my purpose for during off ideas at you all for was to get fresh eyes on the issue. I actually explained what I could on the issue, because it was the least I could do to return the favor. I do know some of the firmware programming involved, but that is not my area... I dealt more with the protocol commands involved with connecting to networks.

In that process I have blamed many roots. If you remember I also at one point blamed it on 2G service... I was completely wrong on the 2G, but side ways on the Qualcomm issue. How is that pawning blame off on the manufacturer? Furthermore, how did I concede it was NOT rooted in firmware protocol?

 

[robrecht]

Actually, I base my "musings" off my own personal standards. To me, anything given for free is a hand out.

Again, Nidaja was not looking for a handout.

Not only that, but Verizon is a wireless RETAILER. This means they sell products and services associated with wireless technology. If you think Verizon is not in the business of selling phones, you have obviously missed 35% of their advertising budget.

Sure you advertize phones, but only those that work on your network, and what percent of your profit comes from selling phones?

 

[robrecht]

There are many facets of my job that are seen and unseen. Just because o do not respond does not mean I am being avoidant.

Yes, of course it does. Sorry you cannot see that.

If you would prefer a direct response, then please PM me.

If you cannot or do not want to respond publically, you have that option, but I think we are talking about your 'preference', not mine.

If you remember I also at one point blamed it on 2G service...

What I recall is that you blamed defective protocols used by device or component manufacturers, but not the 2G service that Verizon provides.

I was completely wrong on the 2G, but side ways on the Qualcomm issue. How is that pawning blame off on the manufacturer?

Seriously? Qualcomm manufactures the chip in the ThunderBolt, ie, it is a manufacturer of chips, therefore a manufacturer. Got it?

Furthermore, how did I concede it was NOT rooted in firmware protocol?

What I said is that you conceded, finally, that it was not merely a firmware issue. If you do not want to or cannot acknowledge the other variables or Verizon's responsiblity for the testing and approval process and ultimate responsibilty for customer's experience of your services, then you will keep moving sideways and not forward.

 

[squane123]

I had the same thing happen a few weeks ago. I recieved a replacement thunderbolt for a non functioning GPS. The replacement TB had a screen issue (It wasnt seated properly), I called Verizon and they asked if I wanted to try out the Charge. I now have the charge. It is better in some ways then the TB and not as good in other. The differences are noticable but the fact the GPS works is what I needed. Good Job Verizon..

 

[Mortiel]

Yes, of course it does. Sorry you cannot see that.
If you cannot or do not want to respond publically, you have that option, but I think we are talking about your 'preference', not mine.
What I recall is that you blamed defective protocols used by device or component manufacturers, but not the 2G service that Verizon provides.
Seriously? Qualcomm manufactures the chip in the ThunderBolt, ie, it is a manufacturer of chips, therefore a manufacturer. Got it?
What I said is that you conceded, finally, that it was not merely a firmware issue. If you do not want to or cannot acknowledge the other variables or Verizon's responsiblity for the testing and approval process and ultimate responsibilty for customer's experience of your services, then you will keep moving sideways and not forward.

Haha I have no problem posting PMs someone has sent to me in a public post, or another person doing the same. I do not consider "private messages" here to be that private, if that makes sense. I am not stating my preference to which venue I prefer speaking. I am talking about how best to get an answer quickly. I can easily see that I have a PM waiting, but knowing which of the dozen topics I have posted in have replies is not always as easy or fast. PMs can easily be relayed to a public post, and therefore make it both fast and public.

Yes, I did in fact blame 2G+eHRPD on the device end, which would be Verizon's responsibility. I believe I stated in a post something to the effect of:

Yet another issue is that people have reboots even connected to WiFi. This would point to likely one source: 1xRTT (2G). Even when connected to WiFi, the 2G connection remains active, but I think I read that someone here had a reboot while on Airplane Mode+WiFi, which means 2G was not active. However, I still do think something in the 2G firmware protocol is not meshing with newer EV-DO (eHRPD) and LTE protocols. If anyone wishes to test this, and can go a period without calls or SMS, change the radio settings to EV-DO Only (which *should* disable 1xRTT connections) and see if reboots still occur.

I also blamed the Mobile IM service (note: which is a VZW service, not anyone else):

Further pointing to an issue possible with the Mobile IM service conflicting with another service or protocol is that when I first got the Thunderbolt I was blocked out of the Mobile IM service. When I'd try to sign in to, say, Windows Live on Mobile IM, I would be taken to a My VZW Single Sign On (SSO) page. This is common for some Verizon services, but you rarely see it. When I tried to sign in with my My VZW credentials, the SSO would freeze and force close. Since MR1 I can now log into Mobile IM and the subsequent SSO page.

All this is just likely coincidence and conjecture, but its a theory, and a different angle. Mobile IM conflicting with a core process or protocol possibly?

Then, even in the same line as me blaming Qualcomm, I also said Verizon was at fault by proxy:

Point is:
Qualcomm is the culprit.
Verizon is at fault by association.
A fix is almost here.

And I gave the exact reason for the rebooting, which explained back then that outside factors can play as variables.

It is the firmware's manner of communicating with Android. It has been problematic since the beginning... its more or less there was protocol error involving 2G/3G/4G/WiFi radio communication. More or less, the protocol deciding which radio gets the data connection at which time was rather screwy, and when the radios fight, the phone crashes or the wrong radio connects (hence why people were stuck in 1xRTT in a full LTE area). Think of it like the Windows network protocols TCP/IP versus Nagle Algorithm conflicting on which packet of data gets priority.

That is what I have been saying all along. It is a coding error IN THE FIRMWARE. This coding error causes a prioritization conflict in the radio-type. Obviously, the many outside factors that can contribute on how many radios are active in the device, how many potential connections there are for those radios, and which radio connection the coding error affects the worst. Because of this the symptoms are so sporadic and hard to track it was nerve-wracking.

Rob, you do not have to attempt to dissect my posts as if I am hiding some secret in each of them. I am no VZW exec or PR worker. I am a tech. I lay my thoughts and ideas out as they are, sometimes worded carefully, sometimes worded poorly. Hell, even sometimes I word it carefully and its just a down right poor judgement on even speaking on a subject. I was and will be wrong in MANY statements.

Point is that you can simply just read my posts, respond as necessary, and not have to question the motive and meaning of every line. I am fully capable of conversation, but I rather heartily detest interrogation.

 

[robrecht]

Haha I have no problem posting PMs someone has sent to me in a public post, or another person doing the same. I do not consider "private messages" here to be that private, if that makes sense. I am not stating my preference to which venue I prefer speaking. I am talking about how best to get an answer quickly. I can easily see that I have a PM waiting, but knowing which of the dozen topics I have posted in have replies is not always as easy or fast. PMs can easily be relayed to a public post, and therefore make it both fast and public.

Yes, I did in fact blame 2G+eHRPD on the device end, which would be Verizon's responsibility. I believe I stated in a post something to the effect of:

I also blamed the Mobile IM service (note: which is a VZW service, not anyone else):

Then, even in the same line as me blaming Qualcomm, I also said Verizon was at fault by proxy:

And I gave the exact reason for the rebooting, which explained back then that outside factors can play as variables.

That is what I have been saying all along. It is a coding error IN THE FIRMWARE. This coding error causes a prioritization conflict in the radio-type. Obviously, the many outside factors that can contribute on how many radios are active in the device, how many potential connections there are for those radios, and which radio connection the coding error affects the worst. Because of this the symptoms are so sporadic and hard to track it was nerve-wracking.

Rob, you do not have to attempt to dissect my posts as if I am hiding some secret in each of them. I am no VZW exec or PR worker. I am a tech. I lay my thoughts and ideas out as they are, sometimes worded carefully, sometimes worded poorly. Hell, even sometimes I word it carefully and its just a down right poor judgement on even speaking on a subject. I was and will be wrong in MANY statements.

Point is that you can simply just read my posts, respond as necessary, and not have to question the motive and meaning of every line. I am fully capable of conversation, but I rather heartily detest interrogation.

I don't think anyone is interrogating you or questioning the meaning of every line of your posts looking for secret meaning. Quite the contrary, actually. If you want to add something to the conversion, by all means, please do so. But saying 'Verizon is guilty by association' is practically meaningless, if not merely blaming your vendors and partners. If you really want to add something, answer some of the questions we've asked you. For example, does anyone at Verizon acknowledge network/tower issues as possibly contributing to the ThunderBolt's data connectivity or rebooting issues? Why was MR1 started and then stopped before being eventually being resumed? Were some people at Verizon already aware of some issues with MR1? Did they perhaps think it would still fix more problems than it caused? What really happened with the nationwide 4G and eHRPD network issues? Are the ThunderBolt's greater problems with the network related to being the only phone that currently tries to interface with the eHRPD network? Do the prevalence of reports of ThunderBolt data connectivity or rebooting issues correlate to any degree with Verizon's deployment of eHRPD towers? As I've said before, if you do not feel free to speak to any of these issues because of your employment by Verizon, I would understand that. Or, if you simply do not know, just say so. That's much better than pretending to know more than you do or spreading misinformation as you've done on a few occasions. And it would be better probably to respond in the original thread rather than clutter up this one and share valuable information in a place where it is not likely to be found by others who are interested in some of these questions.

 

[jlgraham]

Jlgraham, what if you fall in love with the Charge?!?! :-O
Ha jk

Ok So I've gotten my Droid Charge, I still have my Thunderbolt, I've been using them side by side for a few days comparing the two. Here are the good things I've noticed in regards to the Charge.

Much better battery life than the Thunderbolt. I can leave the house without a charger!

The screen is absolutely stunning. I think the colours are a bit on the warm side, but since no one photoshops on a phone who cares! For viewing everything, images, text, etc, the Samsung screen is fantastic. It also works MUCH MUCH better outside than the TB, To the point where if I have them side by side with full brightness on in the sun, it's almost a joke how much better the Samsung looks. Also, the contrast is amazing. Blacks on the Charge look almost like a light grey on the TB, it's a big difference.

Physical navigation buttons are nice, large, and easy to press. I prefer them to the TB's capacitive ones, also because they are put slightly further below the screen, so it's easier to find them without bumping them accidentally.

Also, certain animations throughout Android are a bit smoother on the Charge, maybe because of the different GPU.

It's much lighter, it's a very comfortable weight for a phone. I put a case on to hide the battery cover (more in the bad section).

Now onto the bad, this is where the Thunderbolt holds its own.

The Thunderbolt is much much faster. I think this has more to do with the dismal amount of memory in the Droid Charge. 70% of the time, when using the Samsung, when I click the home button from inside an app of any kind, it will go to the homescreen and then hang/freeze for 10 seconds or so, loading up all my widgets and icons. This happens CONSTANTLY and really slows everything down.

Also the Droid Charge is very sluggish when switching between apps or home screens. Again I think this is because of memory. I tried using Samsungs included task manager, and that helped, except it's integrated into the McDonalds play place looking Touchwiz.

Also I did some side by side tests on 3g, 4g and Wifi. Every time, the Thunderbolt loaded the browser page 2 to 3 seconds faster. I have a feeling this has more to do with the way the phone renders the page than with the data connection. Speaking of the browser, it gets pretty sluggish.

Ok, now onto the elephant in the room. Touchwiz. It's terrible! The widgets look cheap and they slow the phone down, the icons look like toys...maybe this is just me. The worst part about it is the colour scheme. I think Samsung deliberately chose to use warm 70's browns and oranges to make their overly warmly coloured super AMOLED look better. The entire operating system looks cheap and a bit ugly because of Touchwiz.

Pastic everywhere...the battery cover feels like I could snap it in half purely by accident. However, I have a thick incipio case that eliminates this problem.

Final impressions.

Overall, the Thunderbolt wins hands down. The screen on the Droid Charge is wonderful, but it just isn't the powerhouse that the TB can be. Touchwiz gets 2 stars while Sense gets 4 1/2. The Droid Charge feels cheap, unfinished, like a start. I'm going to return the Droid Charge and just stick with my Thunderbolt. I'd rather have random reboots sometimes than a phone and interface that is slow and annoying all the time.

Edit:

Also forgot to note that there are quite a few apps that for some reason malfunction constantly on the Droid Charge. Tumblr, Facebook, Twitter, etc. Force closes, errors, and there is a recurring problem where I cannot upload any pictures at all to those services. It's quite annoying.

 

[s14tat]

Very fair comparison of the charge vs thunderbolt. I don't know why samsung keeps on using touchwiz and have it use the rfs file systems because that really slows the phone down. Just by running a different launcher the phone's scrolling speed will improve and if you want to the to be faster than a stock thunderbolt, just root and run a voodoo rom or gummycharged.

Also I know the phone feels cheap and flimsy, but no body has ever had problems with the hardware. Nothing really breaks on this phone. So yes it may feel light and cheap next to a thunderbolt, but how many thunderbolts did you have again? 9? so which phone is better built in reality? Remember just because the phone feels cheap or feels better means nothing if the cheap feeling one lasts for years to come and the expensive one either breaks all the time or was never even put together right from the factory in the first place ( all htc phones ) They have excellent marketing like the european cars where everything feels damn nice but they are built like pos that falls apart all the time.

 

[tyler3030#AC]

Again, Nidaja was not looking for a handout.
Sure you advertize phones, but only those that work on your network, and what percent of your profit comes from selling phones?

Spent some time today on the phone with VZ, and on Monday I will have a brand new Charge, a car dock, a desktop dock, a case, and screen protectors, all for $0.00.

Chalk one up for the CONSUMER.

You sure?

 

[jlgraham]

Also of note, I just realized that the battery Verizon sent me the wrong battery for the Droid Charge. They sent a Samsung Contiuum battery, which fits and will run the Charge, but it is only 1500mAh, where as the Charge ships with a 1600mAh battery usually. Still got better battery life than with the Thunderbolt though.

 

[Nidaja]

You sure?

Yep, I'm sure. I'm able to COMMUNICATE, in a two way conversation, and have the same experience with all the other non phone abilities as I did with the Thunderbolt. Oh, and I don't have to watch the battery icon like a hawk.

I truly wish the TB had been a reliable phone; but it's not.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk