16 gigs is just way too small, I don't want to put stuff on the cloud.

[Scott7217]

It is no coincidence that the N4 is cloud focused and also designed for Tmobile as the primary carrier - where you can still get unlimited unthrottled data. It is a match made in heaven. I think this point is lost on many here. They designed it purposely this way. Will they design the N4 differently now? No chance. It has been a hit! Will there be different phones in the future with SD? Of course there will be. But complaining about the N4 design theory will have zero to do with that. I have to imagine this entire thread has been an epic waste of time. LOL. But it was fun in some regard. haha. I really love this phone primarily for being out of contract and on an unlimited unthrottled plan where cloud services can run amok. IN fact I love cloud so much, I guess I should buy an OPtimus go over to that forum and complain that is should come without an SD and be 100% cloud. lol

I am also a fan of T-Mobile. The $30/month 5 GB prepaid plan is a big hit.

It's possible that the Nexus 4 won't receive any more hardware changes after the white version was released. However, you don't have to win every battle to win the war. Before Google I/O, the Nexus was the only phone with stock Android out of the box. People thought it was a joke that other phones that weren't part of the Nexus line were getting stock Android. Now we know that the rumors were true. We will all be getting more choices very soon, and that's what it was really all about: choice.

 

[Scott7217]

Still, Google makes a lot of money when people use Google Now, right? Google knows where you live, how long it takes for you to go to work, what movies you like to watch, where you go to eat, and so forth. That's a lot of data for each user, and Google can use that for marketing purposes. The real money is in the data, not the hardware. Given that each Android user is a potential gold mine for Google, I think we have enough to justify having more choices.

Storage and battery life are two areas with active research, no doubt. The best thing to do is try all the options out. The people will let you know (sometimes loudly) what works and what doesn't.

Keep in mind that Google's margins are extremely thin on the N4, if they exist at all. Some analysts speculate it's negative, and that's prior to the costs of RMAs, etc. Keeping the cost down is about keeping the price down to get people into the OS and ecosystem. Obviously more choices are a good thing, but will there be enough adoption of each choice to justify each level of choice? Hopefully their decisions are based on some market research or analysis of S3 sales, etc.

Some of the lines of thought in the market seem to be very contrary to how it appears that Google solves problems. For example, on storage they looked at the problem of having multiple file systems on multiple partitions, etc. and said, "lets just make that all one giant block of storage". People complained saying, "that's not enough storage", and so they said, "okay, here's unlimited access to all your photos, music, movies, books, documents, e-mail, etc.... all for free, now you don't have to have it all on your device". Clearly there are people that do not like that as a solution because it doesn't work for them the way that they use their devices. Two solutions, presented many multitudes of times: 1. Get a device that works the way you want to use it 2. Change how you use it to fit the device you bought.

Another example is batteries. People said, "I don't want to be tied to the charger all day and my battery doesn't last long enough. Batteries must be removable!" But in Google's mind, your battery shouldn't be dying in a day. Swapable isn't the solution, that's still a battery that doesn't do it's job. They instead intend to have batteries that last days. Again, obviously if you're the person who spends many days at a time away from electricity, but still need to have your screen, music, gps and LTE on non-stop, that's probably not going to help. But for the vast majority of people, if you give them a battery that's still at 65% at the end of the day, my guess is the urge to swap it out decreases.

Of course, I'm speculating based on their words and actions instead of looking at it through the lens of what I want them to do.

 

[fernandezhjr]

Yes. They have said as much. Nexus devices will continue indefinitely, whether or not there are other Vanilla Android devices like the One and S4.

"Google?s Android and Chrome boss Sundar Pichai confirmed that Google has no plans to abandon its Nexus program." -


LOL! Will never happen.

Google does not care how many Nexi they sell. They are not a hardware vendor. They are not selling those phones to make a profit. They make money through ads, not hardware. I am willing to bet they are making little or nothing from those GE phones as well.

Whether Apple's model slips or not, will have no impact on what Google is doing. Their actions will be exactly the same.

I didn't ask you if you thought Google would discontinue the Nexus? And I'm glad you were finally able to realize the answer to your own question. If Google is not a hardware maker and it doesn't sell phones to make profit, then obviously it sells them to push it's software and services. If one of those services is something it expects to be really big in the future, like cloud storage, and it wants a push towards that direction. Why in the heck would it put SD or large internal storage on it's flagship device? Yet again, it comes down to marketing and Google not caring about some customers like you complaining about not having SD.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[Scott7217]

Of course not.... but a Google branded phone comes with a Google branded vision. And that vision, at least at present, includes the cloud at its heart. Iphone was the same when it came out and I don't think they have changed. Why? Because apple users have bought into their "vision" too (although really for their innovation, not cloud things). Google IS the cloud and the cloud IS google. Best you come to terms with this and bail out now. LOL

So, if you say the micro SD slot won't be disabled, stock Android would need the appropriate code to use it, right? I can live with that.

I appreciate the cloud when I have a data connection. When I don't... not so much.

 

[Scott7217]

They will not disable them, at least not on the S4 so I doubt they will on the Xperia. These are two completely different issues. AOSP simply does not contain code to support SD cards. It's of course easy for them to add in on these specific devices this case, but we have no reason to believe they're going to do so on a permanent basis by including that code once again in future versions of Android.

It's certainly a bold experiment. I fully expect a lot of bumps down the road. Still, I think it's the right general direction. I would rather have Google try than not try at all.

 

[Scott7217]

I agree that our phones are basically terminals remotely connecting into Google's server farms. Google then has an incentive to make devices that appeal to everyone. Nothing can be taken for granted. Even a niche audience is worth something. All in all, having more people using Android is better for Google.

I do think that is the best plan for you.

We have to remind ourselves where Google came from.... they are an online entity and everything they do will promote, expand and progress through that existence. They are more about creating a powerful server side backend that your Google "device terminal" can access. They are cloud people before they are hardware people.

 

[Scott7217]

I never said they wouldn't read the complaints. I said they wouldn't care. The way to get a leg up on the competition is to make consumers want what you got, not give consumers what they want. You do some of that, but what makes the business model pull away is what they are doing now. It is not them knowing what you want before you know it. It is them making you want it before you even know you will want it. People are sheep. Didn't Apple teach us that?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

You originally said, "Nobody from google is gonna read your opinion here," and a lot of the opinions were complaints, but we can pretend you didn't say that if that's what you're into.

I would dispute your claim that Google wouldn't care. Vic Gundotra (Google's Senior VP of Engineering) once replied to a user whether a Nexus phone could replace a DSLR. His reply: "We are committed to making Nexus phones insanely great cameras. Just you wait and see."

DSLR-quality photos on a phone is a really high bar. I honestly don't think they can do it anytime soon. Still, I like how Gundotra's response showed how he cared about the user experience for even a single user.

Anyway, you say that they don't care. Did Google ever do something to make you feel that way? What did they do?

 

[Scott7217]

I do not have carrier service on my N7, so it is not a true full time cloud device for me. But the fact they offer carrier service gives you a clear clue that they fully intend it to be fully cloud capable. I suppose if you have a Nexus 4 and can mobile hotspot, you are once again in the cloud realm. I would say they are forced here to include larger storage because they simply have to for the non-carrier capable models. Being all cloud all the time requires data access.

I think your point would be valid if Google kept the 8 GB Nexus 7 tablet and just added HSPA+ to that. A device with limited storage would have to rely more on the cloud than a device with more copious storage. However, Google discontinued the 8 GB model.

That fact is right now, only the 32 GB Nexus 7 tablets have the option for HSPA+ connectivity. Therefore, I would say only that model is a fully cloud-capable device. In spite of this, Google is fine bundling it with 32 GB of storage. So I think Google thinks the cloud can coexist with internal storage. They just don't want to do that with phones, and I don't know why.

 

[dkhmwilliams]

I think it was a fair point, considering that some people think that Google really wants people to use the cloud with the Nexus. In effect, I was agreeing with you.

So let me try to clear up some confusion so I understand you. You knew that the Nexus 4 uses the cloud extensively. In your opinion, larger storage goes against the Nexus philosophy with respect to the cloud. Yet, you still chose the model with the larger capacity. Guess what? I still support your decision. You voted for more storage, and that's a good thing.

I would be curious to know what you would get instead of a 16 GB Nexus if you needed more space, but it's not an issue for you, so the point is probably moot.

Fortunately for me it is a moot point because the Nexus is really working out for me. I'm not against more storage, but there seems to be a benefit of not having more storage and that would be a lower cost up front. And I say up front because you may have to pony up some money if the cloud storage allowed to you isn't enough. I am also aware that others have different needs, but they have to realize that it may not be any different in the future. So cloud storage may be a a permanent solution for many of us.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using AC Forums mobile app

 

[fernandezhjr]

You originally said, "Nobody from google is gonna read your opinion here," and a lot of the opinions were complaints, but we can pretend you didn't say that if that's what you're into.

I would dispute your claim that Google wouldn't care. Vic Gundotra (Google's Senior VP of Engineering) once replied to a user whether a Nexus phone could replace a DSLR. His reply: "We are committed to making Nexus phones insanely great cameras. Just you wait and see."

DSLR-quality photos on a phone is a really high bar. I honestly don't think they can do it anytime soon. Still, I like how Gundotra's response showed how he cared about the user experience for even a single user.

Anyway, you say that they don't care. Did Google ever do something to make you feel that way? What did they do?

I also said right after "and if they did they wouldn't be likely to care." I did allude to the possibility, but still find it unlikely. Google has it's channels for complaints. I just don't believe the forums at Android Central is one of them. My opinion that Google doesn't care that some consumers are upset the N4 doesn't have SD has nothing to do with the camera. I never said they don't care for having a better camera on the N4. But we can go with that if that is what you are in to. They don't care because it doesn't fit their business model for the N4. I'm not saying they don't care about the consumer, but they know they can't please every consumer.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[Scott7217]

I also said right after "and if they did they wouldn't be likely to care." I did allude to the possibility, but still find it unlikely. Google has it's channels for complaints. I just don't believe the forums at Android Central is one of them. My opinion that Google doesn't care that some consumers are upset the N4 doesn't have SD has nothing to do with the camera. I never said they don't care for having a better camera on the N4. But we can go with that if that is what you are in to. They don't care because it doesn't fit their business model for the N4. I'm not saying they don't care about the consumer, but they know they can't please every consumer.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

I gave the example using Gundotra's statement merely to illustrate that Google does care about the user experience. The camera is part of the experience, just like the storage. Limitations on either one can adversely affect the user experience.

I honestly think a lot of people were complaining about the storage options, which is why we're going to have Google Experience phones soon. They offer more storage than the Nexus 4, among other things. So I do believe Google cares about what its users think. Google offers choice, which fits into its business model. You can get various hardware and software configurations that all fit under the Android umbrella. The experience is tailored to you, the user.

I can certainly understand that Google can't please every consumer right this second, but I think a happy consumer is in Google's best interests. At the very least, people can identify areas for improvement so that future products can be better.

You mentioned that Google has its channels for complaints. Could you give one or more examples? Personally, I hold Android Central in high regard. I can't think of a better place to offer feedback on the Nexus 4. Maybe you don't think of Android Central as positively as I do.

 

[fernandezhjr]

I gave the example using Gundotra's statement merely to illustrate that Google does care about the user experience. The camera is part of the experience, just like the storage. Limitations on either one can adversely affect the user experience.

I honestly think a lot of people were complaining about the storage options, which is why we're going to have Google Experience phones soon. They offer more storage than the Nexus 4, among other things. So I do believe Google cares about what its users think. Google offers choice, which fits into its business model. You can get various hardware and software configurations that all fit under the Android umbrella. The experience is tailored to you, the user.

I can certainly understand that Google can't please every consumer right this second, but I think a happy consumer is in Google's best interests. At the very least, people can identify areas for improvement so that future products can be better.

You mentioned that Google has its channels for complaints. Could you give one or more examples? Personally, I hold Android Central in high regard. I can't think of a better place to offer feedback on the Nexus 4. Maybe you don't think of Android Central as positively as I do.

Which is why I stated that I'm not saying Google doesn't care about the consumer. I'm not arguing against choice neither. In order to reach a broader consumer base, there would need to be variety. The business model for the N4 is what it is. Will they change it? The possibility is there, but I would be very surprised if the N5 comes out with SD. I'm more inclined to believe they would come out with a 32gb model. I personally have not registered any complaints with Google, but have seen many, here and elsewhere, post that they have registered feedback and opened tickets with Google, so I know there are formal channels. Does this mean they won't read a forum. No, but in order to get to valuable feedback in forums like this, you would have to weed thru a lot of riff raff and posts from trolls. Nothing against this site, I like it, but I would never consider it an official channel for feedback.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[minnemike]

I think your point would be valid if Google kept the 8 GB Nexus 7 tablet and just added HSPA+ to that. A device with limited storage would have to rely more on the cloud than a device with more copious storage. However, Google discontinued the 8 GB model.

That fact is right now, only the 32 GB Nexus 7 tablets have the option for HSPA+ connectivity. Therefore, I would say only that model is a fully cloud-capable device. In spite of this, Google is fine bundling it with 32 GB of storage. So I think Google thinks the cloud can coexist with internal storage. They just don't want to do that with phones, and I don't know why.

They don't do it with phones because most people simply don't need that kind of storage with their phones. You have to realize you are a minority here. With tablets, from the start, they have always been large media devices running GB+ files and taking that aspect away would never make sense. Phones never had that purpose from the start. In fact, here is a clear case where Google is saying, buy both for all your needs. I have. It works perfectly for me. The tablet market has a little bit different competition. I think we hae to realize here that the N4 is more of a little cloud experiment for them. I hope they find it successful because they have made an extremely sleek device that fit me perfectly.

Also, necessity is the mother of invention and being "forced" into the cloud with this device has really led me to educate myself on all the ways to get media into this little thing. I can honestly say Google pushed me into the cloud and it has been rewarding.

 

[Captainbob767]

They don't do it with phones because most people simply don't need that kind of storage with their phones. You have to realize you are a minority here. With tablets, from the start, they have always been large media devices running GB+ files and taking that aspect away would never make sense. Phones never had that purpose from the start. In fact, here is a clear case where Google is saying, buy both for all your needs. I have. It works perfectly for me. The tablet market has a little bit different competition. I think we hae to realize here that the N4 is more of a little cloud experiment for them. I hope they find it successful because they have made an extremely sleek device that fit me perfectly.

Also, necessity is the mother of invention and being "forced" into the cloud with this device has really led me to educate myself on all the ways to get media into this little thing. I can honestly say Google pushed me into the cloud and it has been rewarding.

What surprises me are the people that act like the cloud is such a big problem to utilize. That is the direction that this technology is moving in, so people better get adjusted to it. I stream stuff all the time, but 85% of the time I am on wifi, so there is no data charge. I have 2 Gigs of data a month and have rarely used even 1/4 of it at the most.

 

[JeffDenver]

I didn't ask you if you thought Google would discontinue the Nexus? And I'm glad you were finally able to realize the answer to your own question. If Google is not a hardware maker and it doesn't sell phones to make profit, then obviously it sells them to push it's software and services.

Of course it does. My argument from the beginning was that the lack of SD is pushing their nerd agenda...it is not because of cost. I have been saying that for several pages now.

Other people have been making excuses for google regarding the cost of SD...that has never been my argument.

Why in the heck would it put SD or large internal storage on it's flagship device?

To give it's end users options?

Yet again, it comes down to marketing and Google not caring about some customers like you complaining about not having SD.

I agree. Google is pushing a nerd agenda of their own and does not really care if customers don't like it. But if they get enough public criticism about it, I think it is possible they will change.

 

[Unicorn Rancher]

Is there a reason why a cloud-connected tablet would need more storage but a cloud-connected phone does not? I would be interested to know the reasoning behind this.

One obvious difference is there's no 3G radio in the 8GB Nexus 7 but there is in the 8GB Nexus 4.

 

[Unicorn Rancher]

The customer is always right.

Only in aggregate and only in a true capitalist society without a minimum wage and other price floors/caps or government subsidies.

 

[minnemike]

What surprises me are the people that act like the cloud is such a big problem to utilize. That is the direction that this technology is moving in, so people better get adjusted to it. I stream stuff all the time, but 85% of the time I am on wifi, so there is no data charge. I have 2 Gigs of data a month and have rarely used even 1/4 of it at the most.

Yeah - I find it nearly impossible to be somewhere where there isn't carrier coverage or wifi in the city. It's such a small niche needs these days to require enormous local storage. I guess if you are more rural, then there will be issues... but again, that is a small niche of the market.

 

[minnemike]

One obvious difference is there's no 3G radio in the 8GB Nexus 7 but there is in the 8GB Nexus 4.

Ha. Well that explains that. 8GB and no radio was an extreme experiment in the cloud that never worked for most. I would actually buy an 8G that had a radio too if it came so much cheaper.

 

[JeffDenver]

Yeah - I find it nearly impossible to be somewhere where there isn't carrier coverage or wifi in the city. It's such a small niche needs these days to require enormous local storage. I guess if you are more rural, then there will be issues... but again, that is a small niche of the market.

Denver is not rural. A lot of cities have less than perfect coverage.

Even on Verizon coverage was far from 100%, although it was better than T-Mobile. Experience was exactly the same in Florida and Texas. IMO, If you live in a city with constant reliable 3G+ coverage, you are the exception, not the rule.