Google Pixel vs Note 7 vs iPhone 7 Display Accuracy
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Kevin OQuinn
AC Team Emeritus
- May 17, 2010
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Re: iPhone vs Pixel XL...
Again, that's just wrong. They test with auto on and off and have tables for both.
You're literally ignoring and/or denying facts so that your position is the correct one. When IN FACT it is not.
The Note 7 is dead. It could have a million nits of brightness and infinite color range. Doesn't matter, can't buy it. Move on.
Again, that's just wrong. They test with auto on and off and have tables for both.
You're literally ignoring and/or denying facts so that your position is the correct one. When IN FACT it is not.
The Note 7 is dead. It could have a million nits of brightness and infinite color range. Doesn't matter, can't buy it. Move on.
Kevin OQuinn
AC Team Emeritus
- May 17, 2010
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Re: iPhone vs Pixel XL...
You do realize that you're literally picking the one category that makes the Note 7 display look better? That can even be disputed since they give a RANGE for that result for the Note 7 while the iPhone has a singular value.
From them:
The Contrast Ratio is the specification that gets the most attention, but it only applies for low ambient light, which is seldom
the case for mobile displays. Much more important is the Contrast Rating, which indicates how easy it is to read the screen
under high ambient lighting and depends on both the Maximum Brightness and the Screen Reflectance. The larger the better.
The display’s actual on-screen Contrast Ratio changes with the Ambient Light lux level and is proportional to the Contrast Rating.
^^^ iPhone is better than Note 7. I'm also comparing Basic Mode since that's the only mode that matters on the Note 7 since Android does not have OS level color management.
Even then it doesn't matter since the Note 7 is a dead product and can't be bought.
You do realize that you're literally picking the one category that makes the Note 7 display look better? That can even be disputed since they give a RANGE for that result for the Note 7 while the iPhone has a singular value.
From them:
The Contrast Ratio is the specification that gets the most attention, but it only applies for low ambient light, which is seldom
the case for mobile displays. Much more important is the Contrast Rating, which indicates how easy it is to read the screen
under high ambient lighting and depends on both the Maximum Brightness and the Screen Reflectance. The larger the better.
The display’s actual on-screen Contrast Ratio changes with the Ambient Light lux level and is proportional to the Contrast Rating.
^^^ iPhone is better than Note 7. I'm also comparing Basic Mode since that's the only mode that matters on the Note 7 since Android does not have OS level color management.
Even then it doesn't matter since the Note 7 is a dead product and can't be bought.
T48
Well-known member
- Dec 2, 2011
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Re: iPhone vs Pixel XL...
The numbers hitting 1,000 nits are copied & pasted here.
Measured Auto Brightness
in High Ambient Light
with Automatic Brightness On
Auto Brightness
569 – 1,048 cd/m2
Excellent
Auto Brightness
569 – 1,048 cd/m2
Excellent
Auto Brightness
569 – 1,048 cd/m2
Excellent
Some displays including the Galaxy Note7 have
higher Brightness in Automatic Brightness Mode.
Galaxy Note7 OLED Display Technology Shoot-Out
The numbers hitting 1,000 nits are copied & pasted here.
Measured Auto Brightness
in High Ambient Light
with Automatic Brightness On
Auto Brightness
569 – 1,048 cd/m2
Excellent
Auto Brightness
569 – 1,048 cd/m2
Excellent
Auto Brightness
569 – 1,048 cd/m2
Excellent
Some displays including the Galaxy Note7 have
higher Brightness in Automatic Brightness Mode.
Galaxy Note7 OLED Display Technology Shoot-Out
I would argue that brightness cannot be the most important measurement of a display and perhaps that once we reached a certain point, somewhere around 350 to 400 nits, it's actually more detrimental to have more brightness due to battery life concerns except when displaying HDR content on a display that can accurately portray HDR. More important by far is gray-scale and color saturation accuracy, and there's one reason why the iPhone 7 seems to beat out literally everyone:
"With this level of accuracy, it is almost certain that Apple is doing individual calibration of each iPhone 7 display. This is actually not hard to imagine, given that the iPad Pro 9.7" was advertised as being individually calibrated, and engineers at this year's WWDC also claimed that individual calibration is now standard across Apple's product line. This makes sense when you consider the implications of wide gamut and color management. If you apply a single profile to a batch of units, it will not perfectly represent the output characteristics of each display. That would lead to errors when applying a transform to render sRGB content properly on the wide gamut display, as you would be translating values based on output values that were only close to those of the actual display. I actually ran into this exact issue in my recent review of Lenovo's X1 Yoga OLED, which has a wide gamut display without per-unit calibration. To properly pull off wide color and color management you need to individually calibrate each display, and the incredibly high accuracy is just a bonus." - Individual Display Calibration
"With this level of accuracy, it is almost certain that Apple is doing individual calibration of each iPhone 7 display. This is actually not hard to imagine, given that the iPad Pro 9.7" was advertised as being individually calibrated, and engineers at this year's WWDC also claimed that individual calibration is now standard across Apple's product line. This makes sense when you consider the implications of wide gamut and color management. If you apply a single profile to a batch of units, it will not perfectly represent the output characteristics of each display. That would lead to errors when applying a transform to render sRGB content properly on the wide gamut display, as you would be translating values based on output values that were only close to those of the actual display. I actually ran into this exact issue in my recent review of Lenovo's X1 Yoga OLED, which has a wide gamut display without per-unit calibration. To properly pull off wide color and color management you need to individually calibrate each display, and the incredibly high accuracy is just a bonus." - Individual Display Calibration
- Apr 17, 2012
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This. I don't think I have ever seen the argument before of "This is brighter so the display is better" -- Usually brightness is a factor but that isn't the only one.
Kevin OQuinn
AC Team Emeritus
- May 17, 2010
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Re: iPhone vs Pixel XL...
Let's be honest, displaymate results are questionable to begin with because of their business practices.
He's choosing to use those results though since they are the only ones that show the Note 7 display as better in any meaningful. I'm not trying to bash the Note 7 display, I loved it when I had it and Basic Mode is super accurate. The other modes don't matter since the OS doesn't have the ability to properly support them.
But the iPhone is MORE accurate, has proper DCI-P3 support AT THE OS LEVEL, gets BRIGHTER according to testing that is more neutral than displaymate, and has BETTER usable brightness in bright conditions. We could argue that both are accurate enough to not see the difference, but we're discussing the technical measurements here and not real world use.
None of that is to take away from the Note 7 capabilities. But the display is also technically more capable than the OS that drives it, which is really what the limiting factor is.
Also, Note 7 is dead so not sure why it's still being used for comparisons.
Let's be honest, displaymate results are questionable to begin with because of their business practices.
He's choosing to use those results though since they are the only ones that show the Note 7 display as better in any meaningful. I'm not trying to bash the Note 7 display, I loved it when I had it and Basic Mode is super accurate. The other modes don't matter since the OS doesn't have the ability to properly support them.
But the iPhone is MORE accurate, has proper DCI-P3 support AT THE OS LEVEL, gets BRIGHTER according to testing that is more neutral than displaymate, and has BETTER usable brightness in bright conditions. We could argue that both are accurate enough to not see the difference, but we're discussing the technical measurements here and not real world use.
None of that is to take away from the Note 7 capabilities. But the display is also technically more capable than the OS that drives it, which is really what the limiting factor is.
Also, Note 7 is dead so not sure why it's still being used for comparisons.
No, but the Note 7 has better contrast, better brightness, and a higher resolution while also being comparable to the iPhone 7 in any other metric.
What I said is not wrong. I linked to Displaymate's review of the iPhone 7 display - Anandtech is wrong.
The Note 7 didn't just disappear. People still own it and the product was sold so it is still fair game. We do it all the time for other products.
Re: iPhone vs Pixel XL...
Yep, 569, which is lower than the 705 that the iPhone has to 1048, which is higher. Anand records these values at 577 and 706 respectively, so they agree.
Measured full brightness (not on auto) is 410 on display mate for the Note 7 and 359 on anand, so similar but clearly different while full for the iphone is 602 on display mate and 603 on anand, clearly agree.
So if we use the best numbers the Note and the worst for the iPhone we get this:
Note 7 Max Brightness with Slider: 410
Note 7 Max Brightness on Auto: 577
iPhone 7 Max Brightness with Slider: 602
iPhone 7 Max Brightness on Auto: 705
Yep, 569, which is lower than the 705 that the iPhone has to 1048, which is higher. Anand records these values at 577 and 706 respectively, so they agree.
Measured full brightness (not on auto) is 410 on display mate for the Note 7 and 359 on anand, so similar but clearly different while full for the iphone is 602 on display mate and 603 on anand, clearly agree.
So if we use the best numbers the Note and the worst for the iPhone we get this:
Note 7 Max Brightness with Slider: 410
Note 7 Max Brightness on Auto: 577
iPhone 7 Max Brightness with Slider: 602
iPhone 7 Max Brightness on Auto: 705
- Apr 17, 2012
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How are they wrong? Do you know this for a fact or is it because Displaymate supports your view so therefore Anandtech has to then be wrong?
Kevin OQuinn
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Not products that have been recalled due to safety and have been cancelled.
Anybody with a Note 7 right now is dumb. They should be taking it back where they got it and getting a different phone.
I don't want to get too far off-topic, though.
You can stick to whatever facts you want to make you feel better about the Note 7. That's fine. I'll stick to the facts that make the most sense and have the least amount of probability of being affected by other forces. In other words, Anandtech is more neutral so I trust their numbers more.
They're not wrong, they agree with each other when you realize that the 577 Anand found is within the range of 569 to 1048 that Display Mate uses.
http://forums.androidcentral.com/go...display-accuracy-post5489940.html#post5489940 This inidcates that both sites mostly agree and uses the best measurements for the Note and Worst measurements for the iPhone to prove the iPhone is still leading on that category - and we already know that the iPhone display was the best on color, grayscale, etc. The iPhone 7, as much as I don't want the device, is the phone with the display that leads the industry so far. It's the best LCD and the best display, while the Note 7 is the best OLED.
You have no idea if Anandtech is more neutral or not. I can tell you that the Displaymate reviews are written by Dr. Raymond Soneira who has a PhD in theoretical physics from Princeton and whose business is based around evaluating displays. The Anandtech display review was written by Brandon Chester, who may or may not be a 20-something software engineer in Canada.Let's be honest, displaymate results are questionable to begin with because of their business practices.
He's choosing to use those results though since they are the only ones that show the Note 7 display as better in any meaningful. I'm not trying to bash the Note 7 display, I loved it when I had it and Basic Mode is super accurate. The other modes don't matter since the OS doesn't have the ability to properly support them.
But the iPhone is MORE accurate, has proper DCI-P3 support AT THE OS LEVEL, gets BRIGHTER according to testing that is more neutral than displaymate, and has BETTER usable brightness in bright conditions. We could argue that both are accurate enough to not see the difference, but we're discussing the technical measurements here and not real world use.
None of that is to take away from the Note 7 capabilities. But the display is also technically more capable than the OS that drives it, which is really what the limiting factor is.
Also, Note 7 is dead so not sure why it's still being used for comparisons.
Max brightness for the Note 7 is 1,048 nits. Not 577 nits.
There is no way that Displaymate was off the mark by 471 nits. By the way, your question could be posed to those who are disagreeing with me as well
Kevin OQuinn
AC Team Emeritus
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Actually I do. All you need to do is some research into the business model of displaymate.
But again, I don't expect you to do that because that won't support your narrative. Facts seem to not matter to you like they should.
Kevin OQuinn
AC Team Emeritus
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I'm staring at the chart. They give a range. But they don't explain the range. Hitting 1,048 nits for .01 seconds is a feat, sure, but useful? Nah.
Same thing was said about the G5. It can get nice and bright for about 30 seconds.
I think you're missing a important point here. The two websites agree with each other, within acceptable margins that account for different equipment, on their measurements. They both show the iPhone 7 to be better across the board. It's a couple of people that don't trust the results or latch on to one number, out of a huge range offered, and ignore the context and all the other measurements, that aren't understanding the results.
Their business model does not imply that they are unethical nor does Anandtech's business model show that they are ethical.
You went from assumptions about Displaymate to assumptions about the Note 7
The max brightness of the Note 7 on auto is stated to be 577 on one site and between 569 and 1048 on the other. 577 is both between those numbers and less than 2% different than 569 and therefore those values agree and 577, being the higher of the two, is the one that is then selected to be most in favor of the Note 7.
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