The new HTC One (M8) vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

[iN8ter]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

When a manufacturer states their phone has zero shutter lag they do so assuming the average person can understand what I wrote and what the other poster insists on ignoring.

The iPhone and One have better sensors for low light. So they focus faster in those conditions.

I don't think anyone in this thread insinuated the opposite.

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[Kevin OQuinn]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

These athletes move faster than your toddler. This phone hasn't failed me yet 

All phones have lag when they aren't in focus, so it's disingenuous to group them together and pretend some do and some done.

The only difference is the focus times, which, unless you're forcing conditions that are disadvantageous yo one device while benefitting others... is negligible.

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I'm requoting you since you added to it after my first quote.

It's not disingenuous at all. It's actually exactly what we're discussing. Time to focus can and does impact time to capture (the dreaded "shutter lag"). You absolutely can group them together. No one is pretending that one device has this while another doesn't. One just deals with it better.

 

[iN8ter]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

I'm requoting you since you added to it after my first quote.

It's not disingenuous at all. It's actually exactly what we're discussing. Time to focus can and does impact time to capture (the dreaded "shutter lag"). You absolutely can group them together. No one is pretending that one device has this while another doesn't. One just deals with it better.

That's not a shutter lag. That's Auto Focus speed being slower under those conditions he mentioned, which is a given given the One'One's optics - the one area where it does hold advantage over the iPhone and Samsung devices. These phones are barely different in bright to moderate lighting.

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[iN8ter]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

However. It's low light images suffer most of the same faults as all the others so it's still going to be about balancing compromises. Assuming the purchaser even cares about low light photography (because outside of that that phone isn't even competitive with many other flagships)

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[Kevin OQuinn]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

I'm not tapping to focus. Video coming in a few.

The only shutter lag any of this phones have is the time to ficus, which is what Kevin asked about. It's like half a second or less. Once the phone focuses the shutter is instant. also, once the phone locks focus in the scene regaining focus is faster. There is no massive shutter lag on these phones u less you're panning around at warp speed taking images to force it out of focus between shots. The Samsung devices focus almost as fast as an iPhone. If you do any decent video test, this is pretty darn obvious.

Practically all relatively recent smartphone and point and shoot cameras function pretty similar to what I just described.

You are attempting to redefine shutter lag. Or something, I'm not sure. Shutter lag is the time between when the shutter is pressed and the image is captures. The only time the shuttering instant is when the phone has to focus first. I don't use tap to focus. If I need to lock focus/exposure I long press the shutter and then release to capture, a feature that has existed since the first galaxy s which minimizes blurring die to camera shake when capturing photos.

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That's not a shutter lag. That's Auto Focus speed being slower under those conditions he mentioned, which is a given given the One'One's optics - the one area where it does hold advantage over the iPhone and Samsung devices. These phones are barely different in bright to moderate lighting.

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See that above? That's your definition of shutter lag. If capturing the image after pressing the button includes focusing then guess what? Time to focus becomes a factor in shutter lag.

 

[iN8ter]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

Lol. I can't even imagine pulling my phone out and just slamming the shutter. It may not even focus on the person you want it to focus on. I'm trying to think of a scenario where I'd want yo do this and feel confident that the AF will not potentially fail me (irregardless of its speed)

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[UJ95x]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

That's not a shutter lag. That's Auto Focus speed being slower under those conditions he mentioned, which is a given given the One'One's optics - the one area where it does hold advantage over the iPhone and Samsung devices. These phones are barely different in bright to moderate lighting.

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Shutter lag is the time it takes for the picture to be recorded after you press the shutter button. If the image wasn't focused prior to hitting the shutter button, the camera will first focus and then snap the shot. Saying that time to focus and shutter lag are completely separate things makes zero sense

 

[iN8ter]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

See that above? That's your definition of shutter lag. If capturing the image after pressing the button includes focusing then guess what? Time to focus becomes a factor in shutter lag.

Most people focus before taking issues. For reasons I alluded to above.

Now it's just a factor.

It's Auto Focus speed. Any decent camera review will not lump auto focus to shutter lag. The phone doesn't just focus when you pull it out. It you pan it it will often have to refocus.

Even in video it may have to refocus (if it loses its focus track) and no shutter is involved there. If the AF is slow than the video is blurry longer or it struggles to refocus.

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[iN8ter]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

Shutter lag is the time it takes for the picture to be recorded after you press the shutter button. If the image wasn't focused prior to hitting the shutter button, the camera will first focus and then snap the shot. Saying that time to focus and shutter lag are completely separate things makes zero sense

It makes a lot of sense.

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[Kevin OQuinn]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

Most people focus before taking issues. For reasons I alluded to above.

Now it's just a factor.

It's Auto Focus speed. Any decent camera review will not lump auto ficus to shutter lag. The phone doesn't just focus when you pull it out. It you pan it it will often have to refocus.

Even in video it may have to refocus and no shutter is involved there.

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It's always been "just a factor" just like anything is can be a factor when taking a picture. You can't claim that because sometimes it isn't a factor that it's therefor then removed from ever being a factor. I also never claimed that it was always a factor. It can be a factor, and when it is (which is apparently more common for me than you, which is fine, it's all about use cases), it's less of a factor for the One because it does it much faster.

 

[iN8ter]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

It's always been "just a factor" just like anything is can be a factor when taking a picture. You can't claim that because sometimes it isn't a factor that it's therefor then removed from ever being a factor. I also never claimed that it was always a factor. It can be a factor, and when it is (which is apparently more common for me than you, which is fine, it's all about use cases), it's less of a factor for the One because it does it much faster.

Much faster is a bit of a stretch. I doubt it's more than a tenth if a second faster, u less the One is already faster than Samsung new 0.3 second auto focus...

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[Kevin OQuinn]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

I'll just leave this here:

Shutter lag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Heading to bed now. I'm sure we'll continue this sometime in the near future.

 

[UJ95x]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

Lol. I can't even imagine pulling my phone out and just slamming the shutter. It may not even focus on the person you want it to focus on. I'm trying to think of a scenario where I'd want yo do this and feel confident that the AF will not potentially fail me (irregardless of its speed)

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Even if you focus the shot before hitting the shutter button, the time to focus on the Note 3 and S4 is slower than it is on the One and iPhone (Maybe it's not a big deal for you, but as has been said many times, it makes a big difference with a moving subject)
Also, "irregardless" is not a word

 

[iN8ter]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

Even if you focus the shot before hitting the shutter button, the time to focus on the Note 3 and S4 is slower than it is on the One and iPhone (Maybe it's not a big deal for you, but as has been said many times, it makes a big difference with a moving subject)

When did I say it was faster. Quote me.

I didn't. I said the focus times for mine right now we're under half a second, and that those phones weren't much faster... And they aren't much faster. That is all.

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[iN8ter]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

I'll just leave this here:

Shutter lag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Heading to bed now. I'm sure we'll continue this sometime in the near future.

However, what many people consider shutter lag is in fact the time the camera takes to meter (set theexposure) and auto-focus, which is lag of a different cause but similar effect.

...

What is the point of that link. It basically says what I've been saying. The two are not the same but some people just lump them together...

Sleep well.

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[UJ95x]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

When did I say it was faster. Quote me.

I didn't. I said the focus times for mine right now we're under half a second, and that those phones weren't much faster... And they aren't much faster. That is all.

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You said shutter lag was non existent, which would mean that it's faster than the iPhone and One by default because those devices do have it (Note 3 does too, but you're claiming it doesn't)

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

However, what many people consider shutter lag is in fact the time the camera takes to meter (set theexposure) and auto-focus, which is lag of a different cause but similar effect.

...

What is the point of that link. It basically says what I've been saying. The two are not the same but some people just lump them together...

Sleep well.

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The part you ignored:

In photography, shutter lag is the delay between triggering the shutter and when the photograph is actually recorded. This is a common problem in the photography of fast-moving objects or people in motion. The term narrowly refers only to shutter effects, but more broadly refers to all lag between when the button is pressed and when the photo is taken, including metering and focus lag.


You're of course going to focus on the "narrowly" while the rest of us are focusing on the "broadly". When you read camera reviews (for real cameras, like mirrorless and DSLR's) do they mention focus speed?

 

[iN8ter]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

The part you ignored:

In photography, shutter lag is the delay between triggering the shutter and when the photograph is actually recorded. This is a common problem in the photography of fast-moving objects or people in motion. The term narrowly refers only to shutter effects, but more broadly refers to all lag between when the button is pressed and when the photo is taken, including metering and focus lag.


You're of course going to focus on the "narrowly" while the rest of us are focusing on the "broadly". When you read camera reviews (for real cameras, like mirrorless and DSLR's) do they mention focus speed?

Many people using those cameras frame their photos and make sure they're in focus before they trigger the shutter. They don't rely on auto focus for as much of their shots as a smartphone user who whips the phone out and go snap happy.

If you're going to compare them in very low light then the Samsung phones focus and meter slower. In neutral to bright light, the phones are almost on par. The shutter is instant.

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[iN8ter]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

You said shutter lag was non existent, which would mean that it's faster than the iPhone and One by default because those devices do have it (Note 3 does too, but you're claiming it doesn't)

We're done. You're all over the place.

I mean. Seriously?

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[UJ95x]

Re: The new HTC One vs the Galaxy S5 - HTC on the way out?

We're done. You're all over the place.

I mean. Seriously?

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There is no shutter lag, period.

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Yeah. I must have been imagining it then...now we're done