Why Does It Seem That Android Is Always Chasing Apple?

[JeffDenver]

I'm still wondering why the race to 64-bit. Has Android saturated the abilities of 32-bit or hit some performance wall that going 64-bit will tear down?

Right now, there is no reason. More bit's is not a magic wand for performance. AC details the reasons here though - Why 64-bit processors really matter for Android | Android Central

 

[JeffDenver]

Yeah, I know that. But the picture was comparing numbers. The A7 beats most SoCs when it comes to benchmarks

...as long as you cripple most of the cores of the competition.

64-bits comes with other drawbacks, which is why the A7 is dual core, and not quad core. Adding 4 cores would have affected battery drain if nothing else. Doing only single core comparisons is not an apples-to-apples comparison.

This is why I posted that video...it is demonstrating that 64-bits is largely superfluous...the Nexus is getting similar (or better) performance using 32-bit hardware.

 

[UJ95x]

These are from Anantech also. This is comparing to the 801, but as you can see, the 800 is comparable. If the argument is that 64 bit has a significant impact, it should not be comparable to a Snapdragon 800.

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7893/62177.png

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7893/62179.png

Source for both - AnandTech | The HTC One (M8) Review

The differences are minor at best. The A7 is not some magic juggernaught...and neither is 64-bits. People have a lot of misconceptions about CPU architecture...double the bits is not double the performance, and sometimes it can even be worse.

The 805 is the only one that beats the A7 across the board(Except one benchmark actually):
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/qualcomm-snapdragon-805-performance,3887-6.html
The A7 beats the 800 at almost everything, and the 801 at about half of those.

 

[JeffDenver]

The 805 is the only one that beats the A7 across the board(Except one benchmark actually):
Qualcomm Snapdragon 805 Graphics and Gaming Performance
The A7 beats the 800 at almost everything, and the 801 at about half of those.

It doesn't beat it at almost everything...it beats it at some things. And not by a huge amount most of the time. Thats why the iPhone 5S does not stomp the Nexus 5 in real world performance (as demonstrated in that video), despite this "paper victory". Specs do not take all variables into consideration.

64-bit is good for bragging rights in nerd arguments, and thats it. It is not translating into a real world performance asset that is obvious to everyone. It might eventually, but it isn't right now. So saying "OMG 64-bit" is not an I-win button for Apple. The iPhone 5S had it, and was still not leading in Benchmarks.

I would say this is analogous to what NFC was when it was first introduced. NFC is potentially very useful, but the groundwork was not in place to exploit it immediately. 64-bit CPUs are the same thing in that respect.

 

[meyerweb#CB]

The 805 is the only one that beats the A7 across the board(Except one benchmark actually):
Qualcomm Snapdragon 805 Graphics and Gaming Performance
The A7 beats the 800 at almost everything, and the 801 at about half of those.

Even if true, I don't use an SoC. I use a phone. And the 64 bit 5s simply is not faster than any 800 or 801 equipped Android phone. The video posted above would seem to indicate the exact opposite. The A8 will certainly be faster, but only by about 25% according to Apple. Think that'll be enough to beat the 805 equipped Note 4? I don't.

 

[UJ95x]

Even if true, I don't use an SoC. I use a phone. And the 64 bit 5s simply is not faster than any 800 or 801 equipped Android phone. The video posted above would seem to indicate the exact opposite. The A8 will certainly be faster, but only by about 25% according to Apple. Think that'll be enough to beat the 805 equipped Note 4? I don't.

I didn't say it was faster in real world performance. But it is faster than anything with TouchWiz or LG's skin on it. Even the Moto G is faster than those.
The Moto X (with an 801) will perform better than the Note 4 (with an 805).

 

[Ed Briggs]

Google now/siri are somewhat gimmicky, definitely not anything I use or see anyone else use on a regular basis.

Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean a lot of people don't do it. Most people I know use Google Now on at least a semi-regular basis. I definitely don't see it as gimmicky. I get a ton of info by asking it questions. Much easier than opening chrome browser and typing it in.

 

[meyerweb#CB]

I didn't say it was faster in real world performance. But it is faster than anything with TouchWiz or LG's skin on it. Even the Moto G is faster than those.
The Moto X (with an 801) will perform better than the Note 4 (with an 805).

No, you didn't SAY that, but you certainly implied it. I think anyone reading your posts would think you believed that the iPhone was faster because it has a 64 bit chip. Otherwise, why bother?

As far as the last part of your statement, I see it as just more unsubstantiated claims.

 

[UJ95x]

Otherwise, why bother?

As far as the last part of your statement, I see it as just more unsubstantiated claims.

Because a lot of people are making claims that the specs on the iPhone make it inferior with Android phones. I'm not a big fan of Apple(or Samsung for that matter), but I'll at least try to debunk false claims
As far as the Moto X vs Note 4 go, just look at the current Moto X vs the Note 3 or S5. The numbers would make you think the Sammy phones are faster, when they're actually not. I'm sure you can find plenty of comparison videos.

 

[JeffDenver]

Because a lot of people are making claims that the specs on the iPhone make it inferior with Android phones.

And they are right. The only way they are proved wrong is through semantic nitpicking. When the actual phones are compared directly, Apple is not leading the pack on anything. 64-bit architecture is not the magic bullet some people seem to think it is...it's just one variable.

His point was correct...there is no reason to bring up 64-bit architecture unless you think it really is some kind of asset. So I am asking...how is it an asset? Like what, specifically, is it allowing the phone to do that a 32-bit phone could not also do?

As far as the Moto X vs Note 4 go, just look at the current Moto X vs the Note 3 or S5. The numbers would make you think the Sammy phones are faster, when they're actually not. I'm sure you can find plenty of comparison videos.

So you are saying specs on paper do not necessarily translate into better real world performance? I feel like I have heard someone make that argument recently. Maybe even in this very post.

 

[UJ95x]

So you are saying specs on paper do not necessarily translate into better real world performance? I feel like I have heard someone make that argument recently. Maybe even in this very post.

That's what I've been saying all along
The only reason I was comparing benchmarks was because the picture of the Nexus posted was comparing some specs. I said that if they were going to talk numbers, then the A7 is one of the best SoCs available on a phone. When it released (before the SD801 and 805), it was the most powerful SoC out. Even the 801 is close in performance as we saw from the benchmarks.

 

[mogelijk]

I think NFC does have a use - mobile payments, however they haven't taken off in a lot of countries yet. However I hear that it is widely used in places like Canada and Russia.

The first device with a fingerprint scanner was not the iPhone 5S, it was the Motorola Atrix in 2010, an android device.

The iPhone 4 was so not the first phone with a high resolution display. The Toshiba G900 released in 2007 had a display with 312 PPI. The sony Xperia X1 released in 2008 had 312 PPI and the Samsung Jet released in 2009 had 301 PPI.

Even voice assistants were not invented by Apple. They were apps available on Android that did similar things before the iPhone 4S was released.

I would argue that the original note was innovative and somewhat revolutionary. It started the phablet category of devices.

Posted from my S5

It is also worth noting that Siri was originally an iOS app that Apple decided it wanted for the OS, so they bought the company. Siri was not an Apple innovation.

Actually the 1st devices that use fingerprint scanners on them were actually laptops and that went back as far back as Windows XP.

Actually, when I was in the military we had fingerprint scanners on computers around 1990. The technology has been around for decades, the innovation here has merely been to make them fit and work reliably in a phone.

 

[JeffDenver]

The 805 is the only one that beats the A7 across the board(Except one benchmark actually):
Qualcomm Snapdragon 805 Graphics and Gaming Performance
The A7 beats the 800 at almost everything, and the 801 at about half of those.

I posted several benchamarks where the A7 equipped iPhone lagged behind the Snapdragon 800 equipped Nexus 5. Sometimes significantly.

This is the very first thing I see when I pull up your own link:



In fact, in the Physics test it finished dead last...and it was the Snapdragon 800 that was twice as fast. This is all from your own link.



Explain how this is possible if a 64-bit CPU is such a huge asset.

These are not the only tests where the 800 outperforms the A7, sometimes significantly. Even on the other tests, the 800 and 801 are at least comparable and sometimes better. It is not the night and day difference you might imagine it to be. It does not beat the 800 at "almost everything"...that is hyperbole IMO. And something Apple people often do on here.

No one is saying the iPhone is slow or has a crappy CPU. We are saying that "64-bit" should not even enter the spec discussion, because it does not actually result in any significant real-world performance asset. It might contribute to the general performance of the phone, but it is not actually adding specific features that the Android phones do not also have.

At best it allows the iPhone to have a slightly more energy efficient CPU, because it can do with two cores what Android phones need four cores to do. .

 

[JeffDenver]

That's what I've been saying all along
The only reason I was comparing benchmarks was because the picture of the Nexus posted was comparing some specs. I said that if they were going to talk numbers, then the A7 is one of the best SoCs available on a phone.

No one cares about the best SoC unless it translates into real world performance. It's a nerd bragging right. Thats it.

When it released (before the SD801 and 805), it was the most powerful SoC out.

...on some benchmarks....

 

[UJ95x]

No one cares about the best SoC unless it translates into real world performance. It's a nerd bragging right. Thats it.

I know
That's why it was directed ONLY at the people thinking the comparison to the Nexus 4 was valid.
In any case, the iPhone is not going to lag in real world performance. Neither is the Nexus 5, Moto X, Moto G or anything running near stock Android. And that has more to do with the software optimization than it does with how high an SoC benchmarks. And let's leave it at that

 

[JeffDenver]

I know. That's why it was directed ONLY at the people thinking the comparison to the Nexus 4 was valid.

I am the first to agree it's not. The iPhone camera destroys the Nexus 4, and the CPU is significantly faster. But the Nexus 4 UI will look almost as smooth. With Kitkat installed, it's only a hair slower than the Nexus 5 UI. (The Nexus 4 is also significantly more functional and has wireless charging...so there are things it can do that even the iPhone 6 won't).

In any case, the iPhone is not going to lag in real world performance. Neither is the Nexus 5, Moto X, Moto G or anything running near stock Android.

So...why mention 64-bit at all? That was my only point. 64-bit should not even be a bullet point in 2014.

 

[UJ95x]

So...why mention 64-bit at all? That was my only point. 64-bit should not even be a bullet point in 2014.

You said in another thread that if nothing else 64-bit allowed Apple to do with 2 cores what Qualcomm had done with 4 cores. And I am sure it's not just 64-bit that allowed the big improvement over the A6, but the A7 was or was close to the #1 SoC on every benchmark when it released. I agree that it shouldn't be used as a bragging right, but it at least had some role in the massive improvement in both power and efficiency compared to their previous SoCs.

 

[JeffDenver]

You said in another thread that if nothing else 64-bit allowed Apple to do with 2 cores what Qualcomm had done with 4 cores.

I did.

That makes a 2 core Apple CPU analogous to quad core Android CPUs. It doesn't make it better, it makes it roughly the same.

And I am sure it's not just 64-bit that allowed the big improvement over the A6, but the A7 was or was close to the #1 SoC on every benchmark when it released.

You are equivocating now, but it's correct to equivocate in this case.

I agree that it shouldn't be used as a bragging right, but it at least had some role in the massive improvement in both power and efficiency compared to their previous SoCs.

It does not matter what role it played if the end product is not actually better because of it. Apple just took a different route to get to the same place. It's not better, just different.

64-bit will matter a lot more in the future as both Apple and Google and their developers start to take advantage of it. But adoption won't happen overnight, and certainly is not significant enough to notice right now. Everything iOS can do, Android phones can ALSO do, often better.

64-bit GPUs are not even new...the Atari Jaguar had it over 20 years ago. - Atari Jaguar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - They too bragged the hell out of it. And even back then, performance gains were disappointing compared to competing 32-bit hardware.

 

[bnice]

Whoever started this post must have been living under a rock the past few years. I see the reason for the note with multi tasking and the s pen What the reason for iPhone+.?

Posted via Android Central App

 

[Haalcyon]

Whoever started this post must have been living under a rock the past few years. I see the reason for the note with multi tasking and the s pen What the reason for iPhone+.?

Posted via Android Central App

So that the Apple faithful could finally have a phablet. That is all.