Thoughts on the pentile screen?

[Suntan]

For all you overly intelligent screen geeks out there; can you explain how Moto destroyed the screen on the Razr when they did not produce the screen? I thought it was purchased from anther company (Samsung?). If so, how and why did Moto make it worse?
Just curious and not looking to debate since I don't know the answer. Just asking. So if you want to flame me on the net go right ahead. (But never in person!)

Would really like to learn something of intelligence on this subject.

Can't talk about the razr, but on my Droid 3 the "extra" pixel is white instead of green. This is great for use outdoors and really nice for reading black text on a white background, but at low light levels and certain colors, it looks kinda mucked up. That's my personal opinion based on using the Droid 3 for over a year.

Also, I just think the colors and dithering on the Droid 3 screen is kinda poor. Although I don't really think this has to do with it being pentile.

Based on playing with the Razr for about 4 minutes, it looked like a lot of the same as my Droid 3.

-Suntan

 

[anon(386684)]

Interesting, I had the opposite experience: I had the Moto Photon (similar screen to the Bionic), which at first I thought looked great, but over time I really noticed all those pixels, and it really started to bother me.

I think the key is you really need to try any phone out intensely for the first few days to make sure you're ok with the display -- it seems opinions of what looks good to one person can vary wildly from that of another person.

Photon , Bionic, and Matrix 2 all use the same display. Anyway, I've had a Bionic for a while, and sometimes the "screen door effect" (and lack of a decent yellow) is annoying, but after a while you don't notice it, and it is by far the best screen for outdoor use that I've ever seen. Having seen a Galaxy Nexus up close, the S3 should be nothing short of amazing. No reason to even consider talking bad about a screen that you've never seen before.

 

[coinmanmat]

You know, I just dont get it why people complain so much about the Galaxy S III's display. Yes it may be Pentile but still its a really good high resolution display. Now it might not be as good as the HTC One X's Super LCD display but Super AMOLED produces very sharp contrast between colors, deep blacks and its also more power efficient than an LCD based display since it needs no back light to luminate the screen. Here is a comparison of all three generations of the Galaxy S and the G Nex.

Okay so first there is the Galaxy S, it had a Pentile Super AMOLED display, the resolution of the screen was lower so it visually didnt look so good at times. Next there is the Galaxy S II, biger screen size and it was Super AMOLED Plus which uses an RGB matrix. Next there is the Galaxy Nexus, larger screen Super AMOLED HD with a Pentile sub pixel arangement like the Galaxy S III that comes after it. As a comparison to the Pentile based Galaxy S it looks so much better. Samsung did do its homework here and the reason the SGS3 has a Pentile display is because Pentile displays do have longer longevity than RGB displays. The blue subpixels tend to deteriate the fastest so its better in a sense with Pentile displays because the subpixels are shared.

In my personal opinion, the SGS3's display doesn't bother me the least bit because when I look for a phone, apperance isnt really a big deal. Its all about the features and I think the Galaxy S III has some amazing features. Long story short, if you don't like the phone, then go buy you an HTC One X or some other device.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Android Central Forums

 

[Dreamliner330]

You know, I just dont get it why people complain so much about the Galaxy S III's display. Yes it may be Pentile but still its a really good high resolution display. Now it might not be as good as the HTC One X's Super LCD display

Sounds like you know exactly why people complain.

 

[jroc]

You know, I just dont get it why people complain so much about the Galaxy S III's display. Yes it may be Pentile but still its a really good high resolution display. Now it might not be as good as the HTC One X's Super LCD display

Sounds like you know exactly why people complain.

But... lets not forget this one lil nugget:

I think the key is you really need to try any phone out intensely for the first few days to make sure you're ok with the display -- it seems opinions of what looks good to one person can vary wildly from that of another person.

The screens for the most part will be a matter of opinion. No matter what the specs say, what reviewers say, what we say. Our own eyes will tell us this when we see the phones in person, side by side. As you can see...I'm probably the only one in this thread who likes the RAZR screen. I pick it up...compare it to my Rezound...that I dont even use that much anymore...and just shrug my shoulders...

 

[Dreamliner330]

^It's only 'opinion' because people 'don't notice' the lower quality. The quality of image is simply better on LCD vs AMOLED. Any other conclusion simply falls under the heading of 'ignorance is bliss.'

Sometimes a concession on a feature is made to obtain other features, that does not diminish the facts when comparing screens. Subpixel sharing always leads to a lower image quality, there is simply no way around it. You can't 'cheat' and get better results.

 

[mrHands]

The pentile display of GS3 is never a deal breaker. The main reason is that it has a bigger display. That in itself would intuitively make users move their head at a certain distance from the phone. Use a microscope and yes, it's evident that the image quality indeed suffers. But who on earth has microscopic vision or what kind of genius holds their phone 2 centimeters from their head. It still has amazing image quality and I agree that the pentile display suffered a bad reputation based on previous poor designs.

But for the record, I still believe that the One X still has one hell of a display.

 

[jroc]

^It's only 'opinion' because people 'don't notice' the lower quality. The quality of image is simply better on LCD vs AMOLED. Any other conclusion simply falls under the heading of 'ignorance is bliss.'

Sometimes a concession on a feature is made to obtain other features, that does not diminish the facts when comparing screens. Subpixel sharing always leads to a lower image quality, there is simply no way around it. You can't 'cheat' and get better results.

So....if I look at my Rezound and RAZR right now...and at my normal viewing distance..... Pentile plays absolutely no part in the screen sharpness....

Ignorance is bliss?

When looking at Netflix at any distance...Pentile or the screen res of the Rezound has no effect on the video...

Ignorance is bliss?

Playing games at any distance Pentile and non Pentile makes no difference....

Ignorance is bliss?

I notice the difference when both phones are held closer than normal in certain instances. Thats a fact. But I dont use my phone at that distance unless laying in bed. And for me thats a rarity. I use my phone at a distance where I can hold the phone with one hand and type with the other....comfortably.

Its sorta like ppl complaining about one handed use of big phones. I wonder do ppl really know how much they do or dont use their phones one handed. I text with 2 hands for the most part to hold the phone steady.

If we all held or used our phones at the same distance...that would be another story. When does ignorance is bliss become real world, every day use? In HDTV forums...I never use the calibrated settings or the recommended settings. They always seem off to me. Is that an example of ignorance is bliss....or my eyes like what they like....no matter what the pros say. Specs are specs, no denying that...but if it doesnt bother me especially after comparing it to a supposedly better screen.....I dont see how thats ignorance is bliss. Maybe for those who dont compare it..or dont know...it is. For those of us that do compare it....its opinion.

 

[TiCarpi]

The pentile display of GS3 is never a deal breaker. The main reason is that it has a bigger display. That in itself would intuitively make users move their head at a certain distance from the phone. Use a microscope and yes, it's evident that the image quality indeed suffers. But who on earth has microscopic vision or what kind of genius holds their phone 2 centimeters from their head.

Fair comment, however there are times when people use phones up close. For me as someone who wears glasses but has excellent close-up vision I often check my phone in bed without my glasses on.
I have played with the S3 and I definitely can see the pixel arrangement when held at about 8 inches.

In 'normal use' however you naturally hold the phone further away and the screen is stunning - better than the GNex from what I can tell.

Pretty certain I'll be getting one when the bank balance says I'm allowed...


Sent from my HTC Desire S using Android Central Forums

 

[kronosqq]

So....if I look at my Rezound and RAZR right now...and at my normal viewing distance..... Pentile plays absolutely no part in the screen sharpness....

Ignorance is bliss?

When looking at Netflix at any distance...Pentile or the screen res of the Rezound has no effect on the video...

Ignorance is bliss?

Playing games at any distance Pentile and non Pentile makes no difference....

Ignorance is bliss?

I notice the difference when both phones are held closer than normal in certain instances. Thats a fact. But I dont use my phone at that distance unless laying in bed. And for me thats a rarity. I use my phone at a distance where I can hold the phone with one hand and type with the other....comfortably.

Its sorta like ppl complaining about one handed use of big phones. I wonder do ppl really know how much they do or dont use their phones one handed. I text with 2 hands for the most part to hold the phone steady.

If we all held or used our phones at the same distance...that would be another story. When does ignorance is bliss become real world, every day use? In HDTV forums...I never use the calibrated settings or the recommended settings. They always seem off to me. Is that an example of ignorance is bliss....or my eyes like what they like....no matter what the pros say. Specs are specs, no denying that...but if it doesnt bother me especially after comparing it to a supposedly better screen.....I dont see how thats ignorance is bliss. Maybe for those who dont compare it..or dont know...it is. For those of us that do compare it....its opinion.

If I could weigh in a bit on this. While which display you prefer for your own use is a matter of opinion, in an actual screen comparison review that takes a look at every aspect of the display, slcd2 will win over samoled simply because it has greater color accuracy, it's not perfect but it's not as insanely over-saturated as samoled.

Sent from my EVO using Android Central Forums

 

[Chdwil]

I had the One X and the screen clarity and crispness was outstanding. It did however hav very poor black levels. So for viewing pictures it was top notch, but anyone who has ever worked with tvs or home theater can tell you black levels are key. So for viewing movies, games, etc the Galaxy s3 should be top notch.

 

[Tcd74]

The display of sgs3 is better looking then that of sgs2 (i guess because of the resolution) i have both phones and i really cant see that its a pentile... Maybe under a microscope and why would i look at my phone through a microscope? Viewing thr screen very closely... It looks perfekt.

 

[jroc]

If I could weigh in a bit on this. While which display you prefer for your own use is a matter of opinion, in an actual screen comparison review that takes a look at every aspect of the display, slcd2 will win over samoled simply because it has greater color accuracy, it's not perfect but it's not as insanely over-saturated as samoled.

Sent from my EVO using Android Central Forums

I had the One X and the screen clarity and crispness was outstanding. It did however hav very poor black levels. So for viewing pictures it was top notch, but anyone who has ever worked with tvs or home theater can tell you black levels are key. So for viewing movies, games, etc the Galaxy s3 should be top notch.

These 2 post right here is what I mean about overall the screens will be a matter of opinion. Even when the Incredible and Galaxy S 1 came out....color accuracy went to LCD screens back then. The One X I assume has more accurate colors this time too.

Watching Lets Golf 2 game on my RAZR and Rezound....I like it better on my RAZR....due to the over saturated colors. Blue sky looks blue. Pentile..yea a non Pentile screen is better for sharpness. But if I only see it in certain situations....and most of those situations are extremely close to my face....I take back about not seeing the difference on Lets Golf 2 on my RAZR and Rezound...thing is...I have to hold the phone....extremely....close to see it. So close that the only way I would see it while playing a game is take a shot, then hold the phone right to my face.

The only times Pentile reared its ugly head on my RAZR is in the Youtube app with the red letters, words under icons on my home screen. Some colors on my home screen, notification area. Again...at my normal distance its barely to not noticeable. And its even less noticeable on the G Nex. Where I dont even notice it at all is browsing the web. Maybe I'm picking the right color combos on web sites to not see it...lol.

dreamliner...I agree 100% that ignorance is bliss....for those that dont know or dont compare. Cuz some ppl think all phones are created equal. Some dont realize a phone can have better or worse reception than others.

 

[rbess1965]

As a Razr owner I have to concede that the screen on any 720p device is always going to look better than the qhd on this Maxx but between my Samsung Charge restarting all the freaking time and the radio issues exhibited by the Nexus, I'll just have to keep my reliable Razr if you don't mind. Nexus owners are on shaky ground when criticizing a Maxx solely for its screen. There are Nexus owners converting to the Maxx everyday on these forums and you won't see any moving from the Maxx to a Nexus. You won't find anyone saying "I had to change to a Nexus. I just couldn't handle that Maxx screen any longer". Apparently there are more important things than screen technology.

Sent using Droid Razr Maxx

 

[Suntan]

^It's only 'opinion' because people 'don't notice' the lower quality. The quality of image is simply better on LCD vs AMOLED. Any other conclusion simply falls under the heading of 'ignorance is bliss.'

Sometimes a concession on a feature is made to obtain other features, that does not diminish the facts when comparing screens. Subpixel sharing always leads to a lower image quality, there is simply no way around it. You can't 'cheat' and get better results.

Image quality is subjective. End of story.

You can ascribe all manner of quantitative measures and claim they directly impact subjective opinions of what the “average person” is looking for in good image quality, but at the end of the day, there is no direct measure for image quality.

If a person has spent an extended period of time with both screens, in various real-world use scenarios, they can be qualified to give their personal opinion. But at the end of the day it is still just their opinion. There is no *direct measure* of image quality.

Now in case you mistake my comments in thinking I am trying to defend one phone or another, that is not the case. I have not seen either the HOX or the GSIII in person and so I will not claim to have an opinion on which phone looks better. Even if I had time with both, I would be completely at ease to acknowledge if I thought the phone I didn’t own had a better looking screen. My issue has more to do with the general annoyance I feel when people start making absolute comments about something that has no absolute answer. I get even more annoyed when people start throwing around insinuations that disagreement with their personal opinion must be a sign of a bout of blissful ignorance.

-Suntan

 

[sniffs]

I find the annoyance less about the pixel density, and more about the blue tint.

Hold a white screen up on my One X and it's really white, like my computer monitor.


Hold a white screen up on my SGIII and the SGIII looks like it's got a blue tinted screen protector on it.

 

[tekhna]

I find the annoyance less about the pixel density, and more about the blue tint.

Hold a white screen up on my One X and it's really white, like my computer monitor.


Hold a white screen up on my SGIII and the SGIII looks like it's got a blue tinted screen protector on it.

Conversely, black text is going to be much better on the GS3. Every screen has advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Dreamliner330]

My issue has more to do with the general annoyance I feel when people start making absolute comments about something that has no absolute answer. I get even more annoyed when people start throwing around insinuations that disagreement with their personal opinion must be a sign of a bout of blissful ignorance.

If you could explain how a display that shares sub-pixels could produce a clearer image with one that does not, that would be great. Thanks.

 

[Suntan]

If you could explain how a display that shares sub-pixels could produce a clearer image with one that does not, that would be great. Thanks.

If you first explain to me the physical measurement of "clear image" and what unit of measurement it is measured with, I'll see what I can do...

Let?s see:

Do you measure "clear image" with line pairs, like you do with resolution?

Do you measure "clear image" as a ratio of light intensity like you do contrast ratio?

Or is "clear image" just a straight measurement of foot-lamberts like you measure brightness?

Perhaps you measure "clear image" in milliseconds, like you measure grey-to-grey response time?

Or do you measure ?clear image? according to how close it can faithfully track to the sRGB colorspace, since these are internet based gadgets. Or for that matter, since these are ?HD? displays, maybe ?clear image? is higher if it tracks closely to REC 709?

Now maybe ?clear image? is measured in line-ratio-lambert-milli-sRGB?s because what goes into the subjective opinion of a display?s performance is a combination of all the above and more?

Perhaps none of those? Maybe, since what is considered a ?clear image? is completely subjective, maybe it is measured in ?smiles? or perhaps it is measured in ?Ooos&Ahhssss.?


Anyway, you get back to me with the unit of measure that ?clear image? is measured with and I?ll look into quantifying the difference.


-Suntan

 

[Dreamliner330]

^Yes, because the first thing I do when determining image clarity is grab my light meter and determine foot Lamberts. How ignorant.

Unbelievable.