HTC One: Here's the SKINNY on the infamous PURPLE TINT (thermal defect)

[Darth Mo]

The lense stays open in order to get the photo. We all know that Zoes are short video clips where we get 3 seconds of video, however, the tech informed me that the lense is actually opne a full 5 seconds to get the correct capture.

I'm going to call BS to this whole post starting with that.

The lens doesn't "open" or "close"...it's just piece of glass/plastic.

Even if the incorrect terminology was used, swap "lens" for the sensor and it still doesn't make sense. Obviously the sensor is constantly active (open? close? what?) because you can see a picture on the screen, so it makes no sense that Zoe could some how damage it as that is a function of the image processor. On every non-SLR digital camera in the world

Now it's possible there is a defective part somewhere in the chain, but this post lost credibility with me because there is so much nonsensical information.

In my educated opinion this is a white balance issue which should be able to be fixed with a software solution. Or it possibly be ISO related where sensitivity is being pushed to high creating noise which is manifesting itself as this red/purple shift. Either way fixable with software. If it was a hardware issue most likely it would be present in all conditions and not just low light.

 

[CHILLYWILL_95831]

I'm going to call BS to this whole post starting with that.

The lens doesn't "open" or "close"...it's just piece of glass/plastic.

Even if the incorrect terminology was used, swap "lens" for the sensor and it still doesn't make sense. Obviously the sensor is constantly active (open? close? what?) because you can see a picture on the screen, so it makes no sense that Zoe could some how damage it as that is a function of the image processor. On every non-SLR digital camera in the world

Now it's possible there is a defective part somewhere in the chain, but this post lost credibility with me because there is so much nonsensical information.

In my educated opinion this is a white balance issue which should be able to be fixed with a software solution. Or it possibly be ISO related where sensitivity is being pushed to high creating noise which is manifesting itself as this red/purple shift. Either way fixable with software. If it was a hardware issue most likely it would be present in all conditions and not just low light.

Still trying to figure out why i'd waste my time posting BS. But, here's the phone number and they do answer directly. Just be emphatic about wanting to know exactly what is causing the camera failure. 18669630953... They do answer within minutes and the first line of response will not net you any real knowledge. My phone is on the way back to me ...BTW the camera module on my phone was replaced with an updated version. I dont have before pics, but i will post after pics when it comes.

 

[JBeef]

I'm going to call BS to this whole post starting with that.

The lens doesn't "open" or "close"...it's just piece of glass/plastic.

Even if the incorrect terminology was used, swap "lens" for the sensor and it still doesn't make sense. Obviously the sensor is constantly active (open? close? what?) because you can see a picture on the screen, so it makes no sense that Zoe could some how damage it as that is a function of the image processor. On every non-SLR digital camera in the world

Now it's possible there is a defective part somewhere in the chain, but this post lost credibility with me because there is so much nonsensical information.

In my educated opinion this is a white balance issue which should be able to be fixed with a software solution. Or it possibly be ISO related where sensitivity is being pushed to high creating noise which is manifesting itself as this red/purple shift. Either way fixable with software. If it was a hardware issue most likely it would be present in all conditions and not just low light.

You're going to call BS. But you think it's a software issue. And the only people on these forums that have had the problem fixed for good had the hardware replaced. Surely if it was a software fix HTC would have released a patch instead of repairing and replacing peoples phones.

 

[Ninjatogo]

I'm going to call BS to this whole post starting with that.

The lens doesn't "open" or "close"...it's just piece of glass/plastic.

Even if the incorrect terminology was used, swap "lens" for the sensor and it still doesn't make sense. Obviously the sensor is constantly active (open? close? what?) because you can see a picture on the screen, so it makes no sense that Zoe could some how damage it as that is a function of the image processor. On every non-SLR digital camera in the world

Now it's possible there is a defective part somewhere in the chain, but this post lost credibility with me because there is so much nonsensical information.

In my educated opinion this is a white balance issue which should be able to be fixed with a software solution. Or it possibly be ISO related where sensitivity is being pushed to high creating noise which is manifesting itself as this red/purple shift. Either way fixable with software. If it was a hardware issue most likely it would be present in all conditions and not just low light.

The ISO is definitely related to the problem (changing the sensor sensitivity and all); the problem is, at the highest sensitivity it starts picking up the heat from the phone.
They could eliminate some of it, via software, by, lowering the highest ISO sensitivity allowed, but that's a cheap short-cut.

"If it was a hardware issue most likely it would be present in all conditions and not just low light."
Sorry buddy, but that's incorrect. The problem is only present when the sensor sensitivity is high, and for most people who leave the settings on AUTO, the camera will automatically do that when they enter a low light environment. If you manually set it to ISO:1600 and look for a shadow to point it at, you will see the tint once your phone is nice and warmed up.

 

[Darth Mo]

Still trying to figure out why i'd waste my time posting BS. But, here's the phone number and they do answer directly. Just be emphatic about wanting to know exactly what is causing the camera failure. 18669630953... They do answer within minutes and the first line of response will not net you any real knowledge. My phone is on the way back to me ...BTW the camera module on my phone was replaced with an updated version. I dont have before pics, but i will post after pics when it comes.

You don't think it's BS, but that doesn't mean the tech wasn't telling you something to get you off the phone.

A manufacturer, barring some sort of safety incident, will rarely divulge information that makes them look incompetent. "This call may be monitored for training purposes" also means "We're making sure our employees don't say anything to screw us over."

Since you were so persistent, he gave you a speel that sounded reasonable. But it also defies all logic of how cell phone cameras actually operate.

Again, the lenses in cell phone cameras don't have physical shutters and they have a fixed aperture. There is nothing to open or close...

 

[Darth Mo]

You're going to call BS. But you think it's a software issue. And the only people on these forums that have had the problem fixed for good had the hardware replaced. Surely if it was a software fix HTC would have released a patch instead of repairing and replacing peoples phones.

You're going to call BS. But you think it's a software issue. And the only people on these forums that have had the problem fixed for good had the hardware replaced. Surely if it was a software fix HTC would have released a patch instead of repairing and replacing peoples phones.

I'm calling BS on the explanation the tech gave and I explained why.

Like I said, it could be a defective part, but the explanation given to the OP makes no sense. That is, unless HTC completely re-engineered the basic function of the One's camera to be different that pretty much every other digital camera in the world...

 

[Darth Mo]

Sorry buddy, but that's incorrect. The problem is only present when the sensor sensitivity is high, and for most people who leave the settings on AUTO, the camera will automatically do that when they enter a low light environment. If you manually set it to ISO:1600 and look for a shadow to point it at, you will see the tint once your phone is nice and warmed up.

You're saying the same thing in a different way.

Everyone that is having the purple problem, try this:

1. Take your phone and place it on a flat surface, camera side down.
2. Turn ISO up to 1600 (if not on Auto) and watch what happens. The screen shifts red.
3. Go in and set ISO to 100. Does the red shift disappear after a few seconds and shift to blue? It does on mine.

Simple experiment but it's pretty telling to me. It can be corrected with software, it's something they changed in 4.3. Now the people who have had their cameras replaced may haev received units that can handle the higher sensitivity so they require no change in software.

In my opinion, barring defects, there isn't anything wrong with the original sensor per se. Whatever changed they made to the camera software/firmware in 4.3 seems to have mucked it up.

[Edit]Heck, you can step through the ISO settings and watch the color change shade. Tweaking the White Balance and/or ISO behavior should clear this up.[/Edit]

 

[Ninjatogo]

You're saying the same thing in a different way.

Everyone that is having the purple problem, try this:

1. Take your phone and place it on a flat surface, camera side down.
2. Turn ISO up to 1600 (if not on Auto) and watch what happens. The screen shifts red.
3. Go in and set ISO to 100. Does the red shift disappear after a few seconds and shift to blue? It does on mine.

Simple experiment but it's pretty telling to me. It can be corrected with software, it's something they changed in 4.3. Now the people who have had their cameras replaced may haev received units that can handle the higher sensitivity so they require no change in software.

In my opinion, barring defects, there isn't anything wrong with the original sensor per se. Whatever changed they made to the camera software/firmware in 4.3 seems to have mucked it up.

[Edit]Heck, you can step through the ISO settings and watch the color change shade. Tweaking the White Balance and/or ISO behavior should clear this up.[/Edit]

The camera problem for most seems to be there even before the 4.3 update.
I've had it since I got the phone on 4.1

I tried your steps and did not get the same result. Mine goes purple and stays the same going through the ISO settings. Letting it cool down to 25C and trying it, the image is blue and goes purple as the temp increases.

This is a hardware issue. Simply changing the software settings won't fix this.

 

[CHILLYWILL_95831]

I'm calling BS on the explanation the tech gave and I explained why.

Like I said, it could be a defective part, but the explanation given to the OP makes no sense. That is, unless HTC completely re-engineered the basic function of the One's camera to be different that pretty much every other digital camera in the world...

Let Me add this food for thought .. GENIUS! HTC did tell me that regardless of the repairs that they have received on the HTC Ones, they are just replacing the old camera unit with a new one. This really is an unannounced recall! It's not a software problem.. it's all about the faulty camera unit!!

 

[CHILLYWILL_95831]

You're saying the same thing in a different way.

Everyone that is having the purple problem, try this:

1. Take your phone and place it on a flat surface, camera side down.
2. Turn ISO up to 1600 (if not on Auto) and watch what happens. The screen shifts red.
3. Go in and set ISO to 100. Does the red shift disappear after a few seconds and shift to blue? It does on mine.

Simple experiment but it's pretty telling to me. It can be corrected with software, it's something they changed in 4.3. Now the people who have had their cameras replaced may haev received units that can handle the higher sensitivity so they require no change in software.

In my opinion, barring defects, there isn't anything wrong with the original sensor per se. Whatever changed they made to the camera software/firmware in 4.3 seems to have mucked it up.

[Edit]Heck, you can step through the ISO settings and watch the color change shade. Tweaking the White Balance and/or ISO behavior should clear this up.[/Edit]

That does not explain the folks who had the problem before the 4.3 update, and it's been well documented all throughout HTC One forums!

 

[Cool Jeff]

It's a hardware fault,the proof is that if you place your One in a freezer for 5 minutes and try the camera,the purple tint goes away for about 30 sec,it comes back gradually because the phone is heating again.
It's not Zoe either (she's a good girl)
It can be a simple fault in production design or component,voltage gone bad,battery juice leakage,heat isolation (thermal paste)...

 

[JBeef]

You don't think it's BS, but that doesn't mean the tech wasn't telling you something to get you off the phone.

A manufacturer, barring some sort of safety incident, will rarely divulge information that makes them look incompetent. "This call may be monitored for training purposes" also means "We're making sure our employees don't say anything to screw us over."

Since you were so persistent, he gave you a speel that sounded reasonable. But it also defies all logic of how cell phone cameras actually operate.

Again, the lenses in cell phone cameras don't have physical shutters and they have a fixed aperture. There is nothing to open or close...

What has a physical shutter got to do with anything? The point I took from the post was heat is bad for the camera on the phone and ZOEs might make the camera get quite hot because of all the processing that is going on. If computers work hard they tend to get hotter.

 

[adriandb]

This is clearly not a software issue. That assertion is ridiculous.

 

[Darth Mo]

What has a physical shutter got to do with anything?

In the OP apparently the tech was going on about "lens staying open" which makes the rest of the information suspect.

 

[clemson77on]

I believe it's a hardware issue. I can change the settings and even though the color may change, the areas that look like smudges remain in the same places. It's like their is smudges on the lens (I doubt it's an actual smudge, but it looks like it). If I put an object or a finger over the lens, after a while the screen will look like the image (after I assume it reaches a certain temp). I can move my finger around and the "smudges" stay in the exact same place.

 

[JBeef]

In the OP apparently the tech was going on about "lens staying open" which makes the rest of the information suspect.

Well it's like chinese whispers. We're hearing 3rd hand what the tech guy said. Maybe he said that to make it easier to understand to a lay person (I gather he meant that ZOE once activated is constantly working as it will record 2 frames before you press the shutter button). Or maybe he didn't say it at all and he was slightly mis-quoted. Either way focussing on that sentence doesn't bring anything helpful to the discussion.

 

[Darth Mo]

This is clearly not a software issue. That assertion is ridiculous.

It's not that cut and dried.

When dealing with Analog to Digital signal conversion (the sensor for a digital camera is fundamentally an ADC), you have to balance the amount of of amplification (in this case the ISO setting) vs the amount of light that the sensor sees. The lower the amount of light, the more amplification ie higher ISO. But that higher ISO also comes at a price: it introduces more noise in the circuit (more power in any signal system introduces noise). As the power increases, heat increases, and heat also introduces additional noise into the circuit. So we have the two (heat, power) pumping noise into the circuit and it's manifesting as this awful color shift.

People think that if you want a 1 GHz processor you just make one and that's it. But that's not the case. You produce a batch of chips you think will run at 1 GHz, but you get mixed results. Most should be most stable at 1 GHz, but some only make it to 700 MHz, others may push all the way up to 1.3 GHz.

What controls the frequency? Software. This allows nifty things such as "underclocking" your 1.5 GHz processor in your HTC one to 600 MHz to save power. The processor itself doesn't control its core speed, the software does. This is why you can download ROMs with kernels that allow you to "overclock" your processor. But there is nothing locked into the processor itself that determines its speed.

Now back to the issue at hand: the image sensor in the HTC One has a performance limitation just as any other processor. But being touted as having great low light performance, I believe HTC is pushing it toward its upper limit. Some can handle it, some can't as I referenced above because not all models of the same processor have exactly the same capability.

As analogy, I think we agree that the HTC One's quad core processor works fine at 1.5 GHz. Now let's say when HTC releases Kit Kat for it, they decide to bump that speed up to 1.7 GHz. For some people they might have smoother performance and no issues, but others could have a phone that is now overheating and otherwise malfunctioning?

Now is that a "hardware problem" because it's not working right? You could make that argument as the processor is making the phone malfunction. But if they released an update to clock it back down to 1.5 GHz and everything was back to normal, is that not a fix?

I think that is what's going on here. Fixable with software. Sure it could be "fixed" by replacing the CPU (of course that's not nearly as simple) but which one is correct?

 

[adriandb]

It's not that cut and dried.

Yes, it is.

I hear what you're saying, but it isn't really relevant here.

Not everyone experiences the issue, in fact a great many don't. This starts to rule out software. People using alternate camera software also experience the issue which again starts to rule out software. But none of that really matters, because people who have the issue send their devices in and a hardware change is made to resolve it. Replacing the camera module completely and permanently fixes the issue. It is a hardware issue.

 

[JBeef]

Now is that a "hardware problem" because it's not working right? You could make that argument as the processor is making the phone malfunction. But if they released an update to clock it back down to 1.5 GHz and everything was back to normal, is that not a fix?

I think that is what's going on here. Fixable with software. Sure it could be "fixed" by replacing the CPU (of course that's not nearly as simple) but which one is correct?

Nice essay but I think you are giving people false hope that a software update will fix the problem. It almost certainly won't. if the company that makes the phone tackle reported issues by replacing camera modules, that sounds awfully like a hardware problem to me.

 

[Darth Mo]

Yes, it is.

I hear what you're saying, but it isn't really relevant here.

Not everyone experiences the issue, in fact a great many don't. This starts to rule out software. People using alternate camera software also experience the issue which again starts to rule out software. But none of that really matters, because people who have the issue send their devices in and a hardware change is made to resolve it. Replacing the camera module completely and permanently fixes the issue. It is a hardware issue.

Software as in the firmware controlling the sensor, not some app.