Are the people who work for HTC USA brain dead?

[RattleSnake506]

Yes. This is what LTE and proprietary radio optimization code gets you. I knew this would happen when they announced the Dev edition was AT&T LTE "ready". Would have never happened with WiMax, the open standard that Verizon and AT&T did everything they could to kill, and Sprint killed by just being Sprint.

Of course, nobody listens to me anyway.

Hi Jerry, Quick Q about this.. If ATT is controlling the 4.2.2 update for my unlocked HTC One, then shouldn't I get the update which ATT is pushing put today for the ATT HTC One to enable new bands of LTE? Please clarify if I am missing something in this mystery of software updates.

 

[Philip Pearl]

Hi Jerry, Quick Q about this.. If ATT is controlling the 4.2.2 update for my unlocked HTC One, then shouldn't I get the update which ATT is pushing put today for the ATT HTC One to enable new bands of LTE? Please clarify if I am missing something in this mystery of software updates.

This doesn't exactly answer your question, but may be of interest to you. Received today, further to my discussion with HTC on the subject of updates for unlocked phones:

"Philip; if you bought the HTC ONE Unlocked version, you bought a phone that you could use with any network you wanted. When the update is available you will get the option of downloading the update from the carrier, which will include apps from the carrier sending you the update. If you were to have the Developer edition of the phone, you would have the option of work it as a super user, and have the ability to remove any app contained on the update, keeping in mind you would do it using the correct apps and paths to perform this task."

In short, even if you bought an unlocked One directly from HTC, as I did, there's no escaping the bloatware at some point.

 

[Farish]

I feel your frustration, even though I don't have the HTC One. I was frustrated that the HTC One GPE didn't have Google Wallet, a choice made by HTC. I think that the One is a good device; it would be a great device if it weren't made by HTC.

Unfortunately, until we hit them in their pockets, HTC won't get better. I would think that their pockets would be drained by now, though.

For most of those years, there was no carrier involvement. The iPhone you bought on AT&T was the same iPhone you got elsewhere, just like the Nexus phones.

When Verizon came into the picture, yes exactly that happened. Verizon's model was held back on updates, and people had a fit about it. Feel free to check iMore's forums for details.

But my main point is that Apple has these tests done before they release the update to anyone, and they release it all at the same time -- after it's approved. Anyone who thinks that any company, even Apple, can interfere with the close guard US carriers have on their IP is fooling themselves. Apple's just smarter about it than Google is.

Jerry I have to partially disagree. Apple pushes beta updates quickly for IOS7 and knowing how long Verizon testing and certification standard is, there is no way Verizon are testing it that quickly. My understanding now is that Apple does the certification/testing all themselves. IOS7 beta has some delays due to the recent portal hacking but it will probably be back on a 2-3 week schedule again. Also even GM releases, Apple has pushed out bug fixes within 2 weeks after the initial release. I don't see how any of those have ever gone through any carrier certification. Even on beta, when the latest IOS version of 7 comes out, my iPhone 5 will have it available immediately for download. If carriers were involved the beta program have delays much longer than Apple would like.

The problem with the iPhone 4 on Verizon was it was negotiated after the initial release and Apple used a make shift setup to implement the CMDA radio/chipset. I think Apple poorly implemented that whole structure and had cause some havoc with that. With the 4s they went to a fully into a dual antenna structuring while using the same chipset. It was more a matter of turning on which switch with which carrier. After that the major releases were unified and updates were released simultaneously.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

Hi Jerry, Quick Q about this.. If ATT is controlling the 4.2.2 update for my unlocked HTC One, then shouldn't I get the update which ATT is pushing put today for the ATT HTC One to enable new bands of LTE? Please clarify if I am missing something in this mystery of software updates.

Short answer: Yes, i think we should get it.

Long, more boring yet hopefully informative answer : The radio image on every phone, including the Nexus phones, is a big block of closed source code. With a straight GSM radio, like say the Google Play Galaxy Nexus, the folks manufacturing the phone (in this case that would be Samsung) have everything they need along with a license to pack it up and give it to Google. In turn, Google has to procure a special license to ship the software while it's not installed on a device -- like the factory image. There's a big legal team that takes care of this stuff.

In the case of our DE HTC One's, the radio isn't straight GSM. There is proprietary code for the LTE radio, which HTC probably has license to do themselves. If it stopped there, they should (I'm not a lawyer, but this is how I understand it) be able to distribute it themselves, free of any of AT&T's strings. The problem is our DE HTC One's were "specially tuned" for AT&T's network. I'm not sure wtf they do to "specially tune" it, but I am sure that only AT&T can do this -- and only they can say "Hey, it's OK to send that out to your users now."

Today's update was designed for better network management. This will help AT&T, and help users like us. Happy users helps HTC. I really think AT&T and HTC will want the few people who bought the DE to be happy, so they will send out the update. The key word is THINK. HTC or AT&T could have reasons why they don't want to send it out that I just can't understand. Just like I'm not a lawyer, I'm also not a very good businessman

There are a few things about the HTC One that I'm not allowed to talk about, that comes with the job. Don't worry, they are mostly very boring things that I'm forced to know to do my job well.

But this is my impression from conversations I've had with more than a few people who are involved in these sorts of processes. None of this information comes directly from AT&T or HTC at the corporate level.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

Jerry I have to partially disagree. Apple pushes beta updates quickly for IOS7 and knowing how long Verizon testing and certification standard is, there is no way Verizon are testing it that quickly.

My understanding is that Verizon, AT&T and the rest have already approved it before it goes to the Apple developer program. As mentioned, carriers likely have a pretty big financial incentive to test things for Apple on a pretty expedited track

The problem with the iPhone 4 on Verizon was it was negotiated after the initial release and Apple used a make shift setup to implement the CMDA radio/chipset. I think Apple poorly implemented that whole structure and had cause some havoc with that. With the 4s they went to a fully into a dual antenna structuring while using the same chipset. It was more a matter of turning on which switch with which carrier. After that the major releases were unified and updates were released simultaneously.

The small updates that were held back could have been released on the exiting radio firmware. Search and Safari improvements have nothing to do with radio code. A gentleman who worked for Verizon at the time, went to Google, and now works for Apple (and is also pretty well known on these forums) explained it to me this way.

 

[RattleSnake506]

This doesn't exactly answer your question, but may be of interest to you. Received today, further to my discussion with HTC on the subject of updates for unlocked phones:

"Philip; if you bought the HTC ONE Unlocked version, you bought a phone that you could use with any network you wanted. When the update is available you will get the option of downloading the update from the carrier, which will include apps from the carrier sending you the update. If you were to have the Developer edition of the phone, you would have the option of work it as a super user, and have the ability to remove any app contained on the update, keeping in mind you would do it using the correct apps and paths to perform this task."

In short, even if you bought an unlocked One directly from HTC, as I did, there's no escaping the bloatware at some point.

THIS. If this happens (ATT crapware being installed on my unlocked HTC One) this will be my last HTC purchase. Never again. Nexus only.. I just hope the next Nexus devices get better cameras.

 

[RattleSnake506]

Short answer: Yes, i think we should get it.

Long, more boring yet hopefully informative answer : The radio image on every phone, including the Nexus phones, is a big block of closed source code. With a straight GSM radio, like say the Google Play Galaxy Nexus, the folks manufacturing the phone (in this case that would be Samsung) have everything they need along with a license to pack it up and give it to Google. In turn, Google has to procure a special license to ship the software while it's not installed on a device -- like the factory image. There's a big legal team that takes care of this stuff.

In the case of our DE HTC One's, the radio isn't straight GSM. There is proprietary code for the LTE radio, which HTC probably has license to do themselves. If it stopped there, they should (I'm not a lawyer, but this is how I understand it) be able to distribute it themselves, free of any of AT&T's strings. The problem is our DE HTC One's were "specially tuned" for AT&T's network. I'm not sure wtf they do to "specially tune" it, but I am sure that only AT&T can do this -- and only they can say "Hey, it's OK to send that out to your users now."

Today's update was designed for better network management. This will help AT&T, and help users like us. Happy users helps HTC. I really think AT&T and HTC will want the few people who bought the DE to be happy, so they will send out the update. The key word is THINK. HTC or AT&T could have reasons why they don't want to send it out that I just can't understand. Just like I'm not a lawyer, I'm also not a very good businessman

There are a few things about the HTC One that I'm not allowed to talk about, that comes with the job. Don't worry, they are mostly very boring things that I'm forced to know to do my job well.

But this is my impression from conversations I've had with more than a few people who are involved in these sorts of processes. None of this information comes directly from AT&T or HTC at the corporate level.

Thank you Jerry for a great explanation.

 

[JHBThree]

My understanding is that Verizon, AT&T and the rest have already approved it before it goes to the Apple developer program. As mentioned, carriers likely have a pretty big financial incentive to test things for Apple on a pretty expedited track




The small updates that were held back could have been released on the exiting radio firmware. Search and Safari improvements have nothing to do with radio code. A gentleman who worked for Verizon at the time, went to Google, and now works for Apple (and is also pretty well known on these forums) explained it to me this way.

Apple also does radio updates as a separate process, which helps.

 

[Gator352]

THIS. If this happens (ATT crapware being installed on my unlocked HTC One) this will be my last HTC purchase. Never again. Nexus only.. I just hope the next Nexus devices get better cameras.

But you need to remember, it's not hTc's fault...it's the carriers. Nexus is the only way to go to not be bothered with carrier intervention.

 

[RattleSnake506]

But you need to remember, it's not hTc's fault...it's the carriers. Nexus is the only way to go to not be bothered with carrier intervention.

What if the future Nexus devices because of having LTE will also be bothered by carrier intervention..
What do you guys think.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

What if the future Nexus devices because of having LTE will also be bothered by carrier intervention..
What do you guys think.

Scares the hell out of me. Is it a coincidence that we don't get a Nexus 7 with LTE for a while, and on the same day JBQ (the maintainer of the AOSP and the fellow who handles all the releases and images of Android updates) says on Twitter:

That feeling when lawyers sabotage the launch you spent 6 months working on? I haz it. Sad sad sad sad sad sad.

It could be coincidence, we may never know. But it makes me uneasy.

 

[Aquila]

Scares the hell out of me. Is it a coincidence that we don't get a Nexus 7 with LTE for a while, and on the same day JBQ (the maintainer of the AOSP and the fellow who handles all the releases and images of Android updates) says on Twitter:

That feeling when lawyers sabotage the launch you spent 6 months working on? I haz it. Sad sad sad sad sad sad.

It could be coincidence, we may never know. But it makes me uneasy.

This feeling deserves many more words.

 

[Raptor007]

Do we know they don't? I know they shouldn't, but that doesn't mean they don't.

We'll never know for sure. Want updates? Get a Nexus. How long 4.2.2 has been available is irrelevant. You buy Nexus for software, everything else for hardware (except GPe).

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

Why exactly do you think AT&T would have ANY say in how the Developer Edition gets updated or certified. The DE, International and AT&T models are the same hardware but that is where they STOP being the same. AT&T loads their bloatware, controls the OS updates and certification, I have a DE, converted to a GPe and AT&T has NO SAY in how I use it, ROM it, or do whatever I want with it. I have their SIM and that's it.

 

[Gator352]

What if the future Nexus devices because of having LTE will also be bothered by carrier intervention..
What do you guys think.

I think the NEXUS will still be immune to an extent. Google will incorporate LTE bands/radios and the carriers will have the customizations ready to go for implementation initially. But I also think it's going to take longer to get updates because Google has to wait for the customizations to be finished before they get pushed. Carrier bloatware will still be non-existent.

I also could be so totally wrong......

 

[Raptor007]

Apple makes 2 types of phones, CDMA and GSM. They still have to make the hardware for all the carriers national and international for their phones to work respectively on their network. Apple controls ALL it's software, probably in the contract...besides, Apple tells the carriers what to do because, well, it's the iphone.....

hTc can push updates out till it's blue in the face, but it's up to the carriers when and if we get them. hTc cannot push out updates at will because of contracts it has to make with the carriers.

Actually Apple makes many variants of their phone. The CDMA version has GSM radios in it as well since Verizon likes to offer Global phones (can't speak fro Sprint), they also have to modify the radio chip set for China since its not the same as ours so technically speaking they make several different models.

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

Why exactly do you think AT&T would have ANY say in how the Developer Edition gets updated or certified. The DE, International and AT&T models are the same hardware but that is where they STOP being the same. AT&T loads their bloatware, controls the OS updates and certification, I have a DE, converted to a GPe and AT&T has NO SAY in how I use it, ROM it, or do whatever I want with it. I have their SIM and that's it.

Because LTE

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[Raptor007]

I'm sure the carriers want their phones to be updated to keep users happy but it's probably more due to contracts. hTc sends updates to carriers as per contract but it's ultimately up to the carrier as to when it gets pushed.

Lets take Sprint. Sprint sells more S4's than it sells the one. They both send 4.3 to Sprint for certification, testing, and implementation as per contract. But Sprint is going to put its resources into the S4 because it sells more, putting the One on the back burner. I'm sure in the contract that Sprint HAS to implement the update by a certain date but when is that??

So basically like you said....we will never know how it works. All we can do is take a best guess.

I would actually say the carriers are quite happy with NOT updating the phones since they have to certify the updates, test them (Verizon goes that extra 4 months of testing just for you) and in the end delays them for months upon months unlike the international markets. In the end the carriers could care less when or if you ever get an update since you are very, very likely stuck on a contact for 2 years so they got you by the short and curlies.

 

[Gator352]

Actually Apple makes many variants of their phone. The CDMA version has GSM radios in it as well since Verizon likes to offer Global phones (can't speak fro Sprint), they also have to modify the radio chip set for China since its not the same as ours so technically speaking they make several different models.

But they are still either CDMA or GSM respectively. They still have to tweak them to work on ALL carriers national or internationally and yes...Sprints is global like VZW.

 

[RattleSnake506]

Scares the hell out of me. Is it a coincidence that we don't get a Nexus 7 with LTE for a while, and on the same day JBQ (the maintainer of the AOSP and the fellow who handles all the releases and images of Android updates) says on Twitter:

That feeling when lawyers sabotage the launch you spent 6 months working on? I haz it. Sad sad sad sad sad sad.

It could be coincidence, we may never know. But it makes me uneasy.

Wow..Where is this (situation) going??

 

[Raptor007]

sorry to ambush this but no one is answering my post but i have a rooted phone but im trying to update it and not sure how to do it can any help

What exactly are you trying to update? If you want to go to 4.2.2 then there are ways to do this, I did it and ultimately just fully converted to a GPe 4.2.2. Still rooted and when HTC gets their head out of the **** long enough to push something called 4.3 out to us I will get my phone back to GPe 4.2.2 stock take the OTA to 4.3 and re-root and TWRP again.

If you are looking to do something along what I said to either Sense 4.2.2 or GPe 4.2.2 feel free to PM me I will point you to some links or you can do some searching here on the rooting section or visit XDA-Developers.com HTC One section and read all about it.