Bionic's still coming, is defintely new hardware - XT875

[Cvballa3g0]

Dang Suntan, it's like i'm back at school.. I read every single word that you typed.

 

[XDCX]

Atrix is their biggest innovation since the Droid and in between that time Motorola has done absolutely NOTHING but incremental updates and renovations to existing hardware. They have not brought in anything new and/or substantial ( I will give you the DX though)

I agree 100%.

What's worse, in my opinion, is the Atrix really isn't a great phone. To me the all plastic design feels cheap, there have been complaints about build quality and there's an ongoing concern with some users who complain their voice sounds muted when they make calls. Building a phone with good sound and reception used to be one of Motorola's strong suits - that's why I'm concerned about their ability to deliver an exceptional product with the Bionic.

Additionally, Motorola and AT&T absolutely screwed-over the early-adopters who bought the Atrix for $199 when pricing started to fall like a rock. Within two weeks the phone was available for $150 and within two months it was available for $29.

Do you realize I had an upgrade available since the Incredible was released? What was I waiting for? A Motorola device. I didn't want another device if it didn't have Motorola's name on it. Yes I was that kind of fan. I didn't just come up with all this frustration because its "cool" to bash them. Maybe that will shed some light on my frustration with them.

I've been waiting for a great Motorola device too and I hope the Bionic fits the bill.

 

[Oxn]

Oxn, EVO 4G to EVO 3D vs DX to DX2. There's no comparison.

Atrix is their biggest innovation since the Droid and in between that time Motorola has done absolutely NOTHING but incremental updates and renovations to existing hardware. They have not brought in anything new and/or substantial ( I will give you the DX though)

Because of this I still own the Droid for crying out loud.

Do you realize I had an upgrade available since the Incredible was released? What was I waiting for? A Motorola device. I didn't want another device if it didn't have Motorola's name on it. Yes I was that kind of fan. I didn't just come up with all this frustration because its "cool" to bash them. Maybe that will shed some light on my frustration with them.



Sent from my Droid

youre not gonna find anyone who hates moto more than I. Their business model is horrible.

But they make a solid product

cmon we all know DX2 is a filler, not deserving of the droid name.

Droid pro is a new product, and pretty good for its time. not ur cup of tea, but its still a fine product.

 

[Oxn]

Not to get too far off topic, but as a design engineer that is responsible for getting new deigns into production in plants around the world, I?ll honestly say there?s more to the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs from America than just cost of labor.

Simply put, America?s manufacturing plants are not competitive.

Years ago factories were kept filled with guys (and some girls) that came in from the rural farm areas that at least had some common mechanical aptitude. Those folk don?t really exist in large numbers anymore. Or at least they have no desire to work for minimum wage in a factory.

Now you get illegal aliens (bless them for wanting a better life) that always just nod and sheepishly mutter ?Yes, yes.? When you ask them if they understand what you just explained to them, or the high school dropouts that can?t keep a job at McDonalds. I?m not embellishing here, these are specific cases I?ve seen more than once. People straight in off the streets that literally don?t know how to use a screwdriver.

At the same time the mid level workers in American factories are all just a bunch of whiners. Every time I go to one of our factories in rural Minnesota I hear the same thing from at least one or another of them, without fail. First they complain about how hard and challenging the new version of this or that product is to assemble and how they wish we hadn?t changed it? ?then I hear them complain about how they went to buy this or that at the store the last night and could only find ones that were made in China.

Don?t even get me started on the unions. Last time we had a big on-site pow-wow, set up and paid for by the head of the factory to drum up ideas for how to reduce assembly costs and improve quality, a fellow engineer had a grievance filed against him because he proposed a couple of productivity improvements that would enable them to reduce the number of workers needed on the line.

It?s not just the factories fault either. Most of America?s manufacturing companies are run by people that have never actually set foot on an assembly line. They like to read books about Japanese work philosophies (like A3s, Kaizens, Lean Manufacturing and the like) but then they try and ram-rod those Japanese notions into an American mindset, with poor results.

Really briefly, A3s at Toyota are meant to be a one page document, printed on a sheet of A3 sized paper, that only gives the high level review of a problem and/or solution. Keeping it to A3 size and having it printed on paper means that only the most basic information is conveyed and you have to *physically* get up and walk to the person that owns it to read it. Thereby facilitating conversation with that person that may be able to help you with your problem. The company I work for has grabbed this notion and decided to make the whole system electronic. So people can search it from any company computer and don?t even have to bother with knowing who or which project was responsible for the previous issue?

?Kaizen? in Japanese means ?continuous improvement.? The idea that everyday, every shift, every hour employees work on trying to make their jobs better and more effective with as much attention paid to that as to the actual job they are expected to do. Day in, day out; month in, month out; etc they try and find ways to make their work more productive as a matter of doing their jobs. In America, companies have taken hold of this ?Kaizen? philosophy with both hands, only they hold events over the span of a few days or maybe up to a week, where we try and solve a specific problem. Usually by having employees stop what they are doing, move offsite, and work on just that problem it until the session is over (problem solved or not.) Often not thinking about it again after returning to their real responsibilities?

Lean manufacturing in Japan has to do with trying to evaluate the entire process of assembly to eliminate large sums of waste from the factory by looking at the big picture and outright eliminating the large cost wastes within a factory that do very little to make a good product. By eliminating the ?sacred cows? savings on the order of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars per factory per year can be obtained. In America the craze amongst large manufacturing companies is to force their office workers to try and do this. Coming up with new ways to use fewer staples and the like?


America deserves to lose its manufacturing. And I say that as a proud citizen that would like to see us be competitive as much as I?d like to not have to fly half-way around the world to get my projects into production.

Ah..., anyway off the soapbox... when is this phone releasing again?

-Suntan

Thats some good stuff there.

 

[bworley50]

Not to get too far off topic, but as a design engineer that is responsible for getting new deigns into production in plants around the world, I?ll honestly say there?s more to the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs from America than just cost of labor.

Simply put, America?s manufacturing plants are not competitive.

Years ago factories were kept filled with guys (and some girls) that came in from the rural farm areas that at least had some common mechanical aptitude. Those folk don?t really exist in large numbers anymore. Or at least they have no desire to work for minimum wage in a factory.

Now you get illegal aliens (bless them for wanting a better life) that always just nod and sheepishly mutter ?Yes, yes.? When you ask them if they understand what you just explained to them, or the high school dropouts that can?t keep a job at McDonalds. I?m not embellishing here, these are specific cases I?ve seen more than once. People straight in off the streets that literally don?t know how to use a screwdriver.

At the same time the mid level workers in American factories are all just a bunch of whiners. Every time I go to one of our factories in rural Minnesota I hear the same thing from at least one or another of them, without fail. First they complain about how hard and challenging the new version of this or that product is to assemble and how they wish we hadn?t changed it? ?then I hear them complain about how they went to buy this or that at the store the last night and could only find ones that were made in China.

Don?t even get me started on the unions. Last time we had a big on-site pow-wow, set up and paid for by the head of the factory to drum up ideas for how to reduce assembly costs and improve quality, a fellow engineer had a grievance filed against him because he proposed a couple of productivity improvements that would enable them to reduce the number of workers needed on the line.

It?s not just the factories fault either. Most of America?s manufacturing companies are run by people that have never actually set foot on an assembly line. They like to read books about Japanese work philosophies (like A3s, Kaizens, Lean Manufacturing and the like) but then they try and ram-rod those Japanese notions into an American mindset, with poor results.

Really briefly, A3s at Toyota are meant to be a one page document, printed on a sheet of A3 sized paper, that only gives the high level review of a problem and/or solution. Keeping it to A3 size and having it printed on paper means that only the most basic information is conveyed and you have to *physically* get up and walk to the person that owns it to read it. Thereby facilitating conversation with that person that may be able to help you with your problem. The company I work for has grabbed this notion and decided to make the whole system electronic. So people can search it from any company computer and don?t even have to bother with knowing who or which project was responsible for the previous issue?

?Kaizen? in Japanese means ?continuous improvement.? The idea that everyday, every shift, every hour employees work on trying to make their jobs better and more effective with as much attention paid to that as to the actual job they are expected to do. Day in, day out; month in, month out; etc they try and find ways to make their work more productive as a matter of doing their jobs. In America, companies have taken hold of this ?Kaizen? philosophy with both hands, only they hold events over the span of a few days or maybe up to a week, where we try and solve a specific problem. Usually by having employees stop what they are doing, move offsite, and work on just that problem it until the session is over (problem solved or not.) Often not thinking about it again after returning to their real responsibilities?

Lean manufacturing in Japan has to do with trying to evaluate the entire process of assembly to eliminate large sums of waste from the factory by looking at the big picture and outright eliminating the large cost wastes within a factory that do very little to make a good product. By eliminating the ?sacred cows? savings on the order of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars per factory per year can be obtained. In America the craze amongst large manufacturing companies is to force their office workers to try and do this. Coming up with new ways to use fewer staples and the like?


America deserves to lose its manufacturing. And I say that as a proud citizen that would like to see us be competitive as much as I?d like to not have to fly half-way around the world to get my projects into production.

Ah..., anyway off the soapbox... when is this phone releasing again?

-Suntan

I don't have as much information as you regarding this, and I tend to agree with most of it, but I do find it somewhat ironic that most Japanese auto makers have many factories here in the US. Can't be too bad here.

 

[rkeller62]

I had the Charge and brought it back. I really liked SAMOLED. A little cartoonish, but awesome. Samsung has a unique competency as they are vertically integrated. They actually make the screens. You mention earlier that Motorola uses pentile because it's too costly. I disagreed, arguing about battery life, etc...In addition to that, Motorola cannot use the Samsung SAMOLED because that would mean they are sending money to a direct competitor, even when they could easily afford to do so. That is why Sony stopped getting their LCD screens from Samsung. Samsung starting eating their lunch while Sony was paying for it. Not a smart business strategy.

Only problem with that thought is that Samsung bought the company that developed Pentile and, therefore, owns the patent on that technology as well...

EDIT:
"Nouvoyance is a technology development company that develops PenTile? technology, in partnership with Samsung Electronics, for flat-panel display manufacturers and their IC suppliers to improve the brightness, resolution, contrast, and power consumption of flat-panel displays.
PenTile technology was originally developed by Clairvoyante, Inc. Clairvoyante was founded in July 2000 by Candice H. Brown Elliott. Ms. Brown Elliott theorized that display performance could be significantly improved by capitalizing on the principals of human color perception, which led her to develop PenTile? subpixel layouts and related image-processing algorithms. Samsung Electronics aquired Clairvoyante's assets in March 2008. Nouvoyance was founded in early 2008 as an independent enterprise to provide continued engineering support, research, and development of PenTile technology and other improvements to color displays. Nouvoyance is led by CEO Candice Brown Elliott and Sr. Vice President of Strategic Sales and Marketing Joel Pollack, formerly CEO of Clairvoyante and prior to that a senior executive with Sharp Microelectronics of the Americas.

Nouvoyance is an intellectual property company—it does not manufacture displays. Licensing of this technology is now done through Samsung Electronics, following the aquisition of all of Clairvoyante's assets."

 

[Castor Troy]

youre not gonna find anyone who hates moto more than I. Their business model is horrible.

But they make a solid product

cmon we all know DX2 is a filler, not deserving of the droid name.

Droid pro is a new product, and pretty good for its time. not ur cup of tea, but its still a fine product.

I will agree that Motorola makes a fine product (build) but as XDCX pointed out the Atrix is something to be desired. VERY cheap feeling. HTC built cheap feeling plasticy devices as well but has since changed it's tune and is building some solid handsets now. Samsung does plastic the best. I love the way the Nexus 4G feels even though it's light and made of plastic. It just feels good in hand. Fascinate, Infuse same thing. Feels great and are well built considering they are plastic.. I do prefer weight though. Nothing beats the Droid for heft and build quality. I see it still is on AC's top ten and for good reason

Droid Pro is BB's stepchild. Good? Yes, great product for what it is.

 

[Jasper]

I hate the weeks without ANY news, This being one of those weeks. But I am still refreshing this site every 15 minutes hoping for something... I do know a sure fire way of getting release info on the Bionic. If I give up hope and go sign a two year contract with T-Mobile and buy the HTC Sensation, the very next day they will release info on the Bionic, Guaranteed!!! If I do that will you guys all chip in and pay for my T-Mo early contract termination fee????

 

[Oxn]

I hate the weeks without ANY news, This being one of those weeks. But I am still refreshing this site every 15 minutes hoping for something... I do know a sure fire way of getting release info on the Bionic. If I give up hope and go sign a two year contract with T-Mobile and buy the HTC Sensation, the very next day they will release info on the Bionic, Guaranteed!!! If I do that will you guys all chip in and pay for my T-Mo early contract termination fee????

take one for the team

 

[Castor Troy]

Sensation will be great Jasper, snatch it up. I'm not a fan of HTC but overall I think it's a "better" product. Screen is really nice too

 

[Oxn]

take one for the team

If you get a Sensation by Sunday, and Motor makes an Official announcement with official pics, and official release date, by next week, and i will paypal you 5 bucks.

 

[robwilldominate]

If you get a Sensation by Sunday, and Motor makes an Official announcement with official pics, and official release date, by next week, and i will paypal you 5 bucks.

me too!

 

[radgatt]

If they make the announcement after you sign the contract then take the phone back and use the money they agreed to pay you for the early termination fee..

 

[anon(49997)]

I stopped in a Verizon store to look at the DX2 display and had a chance to look over my friends Atrix display and in my eyes I do not see anything to complain about. I zoomed maps and documents and for the way I will use it I seen nothing to make me frown. Now I may not see what others do complain about because I just worked it over in the manner I would use it. I am photographer and keep expensive displays at home calibrated for color accuracy so if it were to stand out bad I would have noticed it.
I did not hold it next to the other better displays there (Maybe a good thing). Not wanting to start that heated Pentile discussion again, I am just saying for the way I would use the tool, I have no issues with it. The Atrix and DX2 type of display that is.

So if the Bionic is as good or better than what I seen today it will not be a deal breaker for me.

I did experience the Lag in the Atrix, and the muffled voice quality when he calls me will be clear on one call and muffed on the next, hit or miss.

 

[anon(49997)]

On my same visit to the store I interviewed the rep about the Bionic. As normal he said he has seen no indication.
I asked if he had received training on it yet and he said no, that is usually 2 to 3 weeks before a release.
I mentioned that it looks like we have at least three weeks from now then since you have not had training eh? The guy blushed like a shy little boy saying it shouldn't be that long.

I said C'Mon fella, if you want me to come see you when it releases fess-up! I tell you this guy was blushing like crazy and just smiled and asked if there was any other phone I would like to stroke.

Heh! Amazing.

 

[rattler21]

Suntan, just wanted you to know that there are a lot of us who share your understanding. I'm always amazed when an American manufacturer can come up with a competitive product. My Kudos to Moto always. You outlined only some of the challenges that any industry bangs into when they attempt innovate anywhere, especially in this highly regulated country. I honor the efforts of these Innovators by voting for them with my dollars and attempting to patiently await the results of their innovative minds and processes. These forums do provide us a place to add our $.02 of what we like and what we think we would like. Just give us all room to innovate.

 

[Nightmare717]

On my same visit to the store I interviewed the rep about the Bionic. As normal he said he has seen no indication.
I asked if he had received training on it yet and he said no, that is usually 2 to 3 weeks before a release.
I mentioned that it looks like we have at least three weeks from now then since you have not had training eh? The guy blushed like a shy little boy saying it shouldn't be that long.

I said C'Mon fella, if you want me to come see you when it releases fess-up! I tell you this guy was blushing like crazy and just smiled and asked if there was any other phone I would like to stroke.

Heh! Amazing.

This sounds pretty promising for the speculated 4th of July weekend release.

 

[Oxn]

On my same visit to the store I interviewed the rep about the Bionic. As normal he said he has seen no indication.
I asked if he had received training on it yet and he said no, that is usually 2 to 3 weeks before a release.
I mentioned that it looks like we have at least three weeks from now then since you have not had training eh? The guy blushed like a shy little boy saying it shouldn't be that long.

I said C'Mon fella, if you want me to come see you when it releases fess-up! I tell you this guy was blushing like crazy and just smiled and asked if there was any other phone I would like to stroke.

Heh! Amazing.

i dont get it, what are you implying here?

 

[Castor Troy]

On my same visit to the store I interviewed the rep about the Bionic. As normal he said he has seen no indication.
I asked if he had received training on it yet and he said no, that is usually 2 to 3 weeks before a release.
I mentioned that it looks like we have at least three weeks from now then since you have not had training eh? The guy blushed like a shy little boy saying it shouldn't be that long.

I said C'Mon fella, if you want me to come see you when it releases fess-up! I tell you this guy was blushing like crazy and just smiled and asked if there was any other phone I would like to stroke.

Heh! Amazing.

This guy had no clue what the heck you were talking about lol. You may as well have spoken to him in Farsi.

Sent from my Droid

 

[grn4frk]

i dont get it, what are you implying here?

Im confused as well?

are you saying the guy is blushing because you think he's had training for it already?

Id like for that to be true but I highly doubt that.