Is it stealing?

[Johnly]

Quick question....if I tethered for free, and Verizon added it up over the years and charged me on my final bill (say 900 bucks for and example) would I have to pay it? Or could I convince them I wasn't stealing it? Could they tell I was rooted? Could they read the radio mode? Is their technology even able to tell what phones are doing on their towers? I think that is why people do it. They aren't afraid to get caught by Verizon, and the environment makes it easy to tether free on our platform too. No one is going out of their way much to accomplish it.

 

[RHChan84]

The cost to the carrier is nothing compared to the cost to us, if the included free unlimited tethering they would gain so many new customers and so much profit. Help us, help them.

But even limited tether will bring in more users. Like I have suggested before.
Totaling phone and tethering usage for a fee but have different plans for 5gb, 7gb and 10gb. That would work as well. Right now, it's $50 for unlimited device data and $20 for 2gb. Yea we would have the unlimited data taken away but they are started to have caps on those plans anyways.

Your attitude is what is wrong with the world. First of all, SMS is not free for them. Have you seen the data for the exponential increase in SMS and MMS? Increases in the amount of SMSes being sent requires more infrastructure on Verizon's part in order to cope. They pay the cost up front, which is then amortized by the fees it charges users. Yes, at a certain point they break even. But you're still using their network for it.

Second of all, even if they were somehow 'stealing' from you, (which is a ridiculous notion, because you don't own the network that SMSes are sent over, and they're not stealing anything from you), it doesn't entitle you to violate your contract and use a service for which you are not paying. Don't try and spin it as 'well they owe me since I'm paying for SMS' because that line of argumentation will get you nowhere.

You are not entitled to anything, so stop acting like you are. If you choose to tether in violation of your contract, Verizon knows it and you deserve to get caught.

Your assuming I'm tethering which I am not since I have a Mifi device. I'm entitled to my own opinion. And that is just how I feel but it doesn't mean I'm going to act on it and get screwed by VZW and get charged.

I have tried it and tested it out to see how the speeds are and to test my phone if it was rooted since it did not work without root. I have tested it out to compare the speeds between the phone's tether and my mifi which is dedicated to internet and speeds were the same.

Total, I have used maybe 10mb-20mb to play around and test it. And that was all in Jan.

@ottscay. Relax, and please continue to be polite. This is a good thread. Insinuating I am being "dense, cutsie, [sic] or a jerk," doesn't strengthen your argument any. I am open minded enough to realize not everyone sees hacking tether (you must hack your phone first) the way I do. I don't expect people to stop, and it is none of my business what they do with their phones, and ultimately I don't care. I say it again, and I know I am not the only one that feels this way, but stealing tether is no different than stealing premium cable if you only have basic. It is stealing, bottom line. Is it against the law? I an not a lawyer and states have their own laws on piracy. It is no different than stealing music or movies from torrents when the artists is selling THEIR work. Same thing, networks providing THEIR services do so under the assumption that t I follow the agreement I put my name on. Not trying to offend anyone here, and I know some people are really sensitive about it. With that, I still hold firm on my original stance. It is stealing man. I know plenty if people feel the same. OP deserves opinions from both perspectives. It is clear we see it differently, and that is OK we can continue to introduce reasons why we have our opinions, but let's do it politely? And even though we disagree here, I bet we agree on something android! Take care.

That is true. People don't like it and people are all for it. Look at the music and movie industry, they are still making money but go to a BestBuy and check out the DVD/Music section, they do not have as much as before. It's like I have to buy them from Amazon and waiting then going to BestBuy and getting it right then and there.

 

[hawaiianbrowneyez05]

Yall keep saying "its unlimited but only on the phone" yes it is unlimited on the phone, the data is on the phone, its just used to power internet to another device. when i had my windows mobile phone, I tethered without any threats from verizon. they didn't have a tether plan or anything, so why now it's a problem when they see they can make money in this feature. Verizon is just greedy and if im paying 30 dollars a month for data, im not paying anymore to use my data.

 

[shaddix]

Not stealing. That word has a definition. It doesn't fit tethering without the feature on your plan. Look it up. Sorry but you can't redefine words so easily.

It is breaking your agreement however. My integrity is not for sale, is yours? Pay the fee and keep your word if you want to tether, have some respect for yourself.

 

[Droid800]

Quick question....if I tethered for free, and Verizon added it up over the years and charged me on my final bill (say 900 bucks for and example) would I have to pay it? Or could I convince them I wasn't stealing it? Could they tell I was rooted? Could they read the radio mode? Is their technology even able to tell what phones are doing on their towers? I think that is why people do it. They aren't afraid to get caught by Verizon, and the environment makes it easy to tether free on our platform too. No one is going out of their way much to accomplish it.

Don't kid yourself; any time you tether, they know about it. If Verizon decides to start cracking down, anyone that tethers without paying would be liable for any charges related to that. (and yes, you would have to pay it)

The reason why people do it now is because Verizon hasn't cracked down. When they do, it won't even be up for discussion whether or not they should. (Look at AT&T's recent efforts for what sort of effect a crackdown can have)

 

[Droid800]

Yall keep saying "its unlimited but only on the phone" yes it is unlimited on the phone, the data is on the phone, its just used to power internet to another device. when i had my windows mobile phone, I tethered without any threats from verizon. they didn't have a tether plan or anything, so why now it's a problem when they see they can make money in this feature. Verizon is just greedy and if im paying 30 dollars a month for data, im not paying anymore to use my data.

I'm sorry, but you just don't know what you're talking about. Using data On the phone is very different than data THROUGH the phone. This has been discussed at length, and there IS a difference between the two. You have no rights whatsoever to tether without paying for it.

 

[PensHockey]

Still everybody is talking about how much more data is used when tethering. So the main argument is people are using to much data on there "Unlimited Data" plan.

If I hand my friend my phone and he starts surfing the internet on my phone is that now stealing because he did not pay for data? No because I paid for unlimited data! If they want to raise the cost for unlimited data that's fine but as of right now I have unlimited data.

No I don't tether and have not rooted my phone.

 

[p08757]

Not stealing. That word has a definition. It doesn't fit tethering without the feature on your plan. Look it up. Sorry but you can't redefine words so easily.

It is breaking your agreement however. My integrity is not for sale, is yours? Pay the fee and keep your word if you want to tether, have some respect for yourself.

I just looked up stealing, they refered me to theft:

Legal Dictionary

Main Entry: theft
Function: noun
Etymology: Old English thiefth
: LARCENY; broadly : a criminal taking of the property or services of another without consent

I would say you are wrong!

 

[Hand_O_Death]

THink of it this way, if every schmo tethered their phones to their tablets and computers everywhere, imagine how slow all data would be with eveyone trying to play Call of Duty at the bus stops across the country. It may suck, but just because you want to justify getting something you want for free, does not make it alright. You are not allowed to tether without paying for it, says the company's bandwidth you are using.

I personally would love to link my laptop to my phone, but I will not because it is morally wrong, even though I have the ability to do it.

Stealing is stealing. Whether it is from a super big company that has high bills in the first place (which you could easily cancel at any time), or sending out those fake UK lottery emails to try and fleece the elderly out of their money. Just because your not taking something tangible from a person face to face does not make it any better.

 

[wildman]

Your attitude is what is wrong with the world. First of all, SMS is not free for them. Have you seen the data for the exponential increase in SMS and MMS? Increases in the amount of SMSes being sent requires more infrastructure on Verizon's part in order to cope. They pay the cost up front, which is then amortized by the fees it charges users. Yes, at a certain point they break even. But you're still using their network for it.

Second of all, even if they were somehow 'stealing' from you, (which is a ridiculous notion, because you don't own the network that SMSes are sent over, and they're not stealing anything from you), it doesn't entitle you to violate your contract and use a service for which you are not paying. Don't try and spin it as 'well they owe me since I'm paying for SMS' because that line of argumentation will get you nowhere.

You are not entitled to anything, so stop acting like you are. If you choose to tether in violation of your contract, Verizon knows it and you deserve to get caught.

Exactly, everyone has a tendency to do this all the time, when they want to do something that they know shouldn't be done they have a habit to spin information to work for their needs and think this makes it all right. I am rooted with Gingerbread installed and I except that I made this decision so if something comes from it I understand that it was my decision and anything is possible but when all said and done I am not using anything to access features on the network that I am not paying for.

So no matter how you twist it, if you did not pay for it. it is stealing...

 

[PensHockey]

The argument is that we are paying for it in our "unlimited data". Iam not rooted nor do I tether. But I still feel like iam paying for unlimited data and what I do with that data is up to me. they get paid every month.

 

[Droid800]

The argument is that we are paying for it in our "unlimited data". Iam not rooted nor do I tether. But I still feel like iam paying for unlimited data and what I do with that data is up to me. they get paid every month.

No. That is not at all true.

 

[Droid800]

Still everybody is talking about how much more data is used when tethering. So the main argument is people are using to much data on there "Unlimited Data" plan.

If I hand my friend my phone and he starts surfing the internet on my phone is that now stealing because he did not pay for data? No because I paid for unlimited data! If they want to raise the cost for unlimited data that's fine but as of right now I have unlimited data.

No I don't tether and have not rooted my phone.

Good God. Do us all a favor and actually read the pages before this. UNLIMITED is NOT the issue; you are not entitled to unlimited use on multiple devices. You are ONLY PAYING FOR use ON your handset.


There IS a difference between the amount of data used on your computer versus a handset. THAT is what you pay for when you pay for tethering. It doesn't matter that you have unlimited data, because you are ONLY PAYING FOR DATA ON THE HANDSET ITSELF.

 

[RHChan84]

Since we are on the subject of unlimited, is it truly unlimited? Or is there a 5gb bandwidth that a small percentage of people actually go over but don't say much about it? How much GB do you guys really use on your devices (for those who do not use it to tether). I use about 3-4GB and it's all on youtube videos. That is all I do. And on a low month, I go about 2GB.

For those who tether, how much GB do you use?

 

[Mamahnita#AC]

For some reason my Evo refuse to do it bummer.

 

[toad6386]

Is it "stealing" in the strict sense of the word? That's debatable. Is it wrong? Well, unless you are absolutely certain there is no clause in your contract that forbids "unauthorized" (read not paid for), then it IS wrong. YOU signed the contract saying YOU agreed to their terms. I won't step up on a soap box, but I will say "Say what you mean and mean what you say!" It's called honesty. 'Nuff said.

 

[GenericMessage]

Is it "stealing" in the strict sense of the word? That's debatable. Is it wrong? Well, unless you are absolutely certain there is no clause in your contract that forbids "unauthorized" (read not paid for), then it IS wrong. YOU signed the contract saying YOU agreed to their terms. I won't step up on a soap box, but I will say "Say what you mean and mean what you say!" It's called honesty. 'Nuff said.

They make a perfect point.


Stealing is a legal issue.




So for the last 10 pages we've been arguing over the possible ethics of a cell phone contract. lol

 

[sonofaresiii]

A $10 all-you-can-eat buffet doesn't mean your whole family gets to eat for $10.

 

[Johnly]

Exactly, everyone has a tendency to do this all the time, when they want to do something that they know shouldn't be done they have a habit to spin information to work for their needs and think this makes it all right. I am rooted with Gingerbread installed and I except that I made this decision so if something comes from it I understand that it was my decision and anything is possible but when all said and done I am not using anything tweaks to access features on the network that I am not paying for.

So no matter how you twist it, if you did bot pay for it. it is stealing...

I respect this. I wish more people would own their actions.

 

[ottscay]

I say it again, and I know I am not the only one that feels this way, but stealing tether is no different than stealing premium cable if you only have basic. It is stealing, bottom line. Is it against the law? I an not a lawyer and states have their own laws on piracy.

This is close enough to reality that I'd agree - technically you aren't paying for bandwidth from cable (talking about TV here, not those who get internet over cable) so it's not perfectly analogous, but had you said this, rather than the other stuff, I wouldn't have said you were taking my comments out of context.

It is no different than stealing music or movies from torrents when the artists is selling THEIR work.

This is just 100% wrong. It's nothing like this. Taking intellectual property from another is stealing. On the other hand, whether the artists like it or not, including a couple of their songs when you burn a disk for a friend is 100% legal. It all depends on context, and really IP rights are not analogous at all to the situation with smartphones.

With that, I still hold firm on my original stance. It is stealing man. I know plenty if people feel the same. OP deserves opinions from both perspectives. It is clear we see it differently, and that is OK

I guess, except that stealing is a legal issue. As I said before, legal and ethical concerns do not overlap perfectly. It's 100% legal to root your phone. Is it etheical? All depends on what your actions are during and after. It's 100% legal to install software on your phone that Verizon doesn't like, but it's also 100% legal for them to stop providing you service if you violated your contract with them. Are both positions ethical just because they are legal? Unless you are trying to define stealing via some pre-legal stance (in which case I don't think it much matters for the conversation) then I'm sorry, but it's the legal stance that matters.

If people want to discuss the ethical side I think that's totally valid, but let's not confuse the two. The movie industry has tried very hard to define it as stealing to make your own (unshared) copies of a movie to back yours up, but it's not stealing no matter how much they want it to be. Nor is sharing a copy as long as it's returned to you uncopied. But providing a digital file _is_ stealing, because there's no physical act of returning it that can make sense, so different legal rules apply. Does that mean that the ethics of sharing your movie changed suddenly when we went from VHS to DVD to Blu-ray? Depends on who you ask (and there's an honest debate out there amongst consumer-advocates), although of course the content owners have been saying it's ethically wrong ever since VHS, even though the U.S. Supreme Court disagreed with them.

Anyhow, I don't mind at all if we are going to have a debate over ethics, but if that's the case please don't try and overlap it with a legal discussion, as they just are not the same thing, like it or not.