Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

[Aquila]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

It would be possible to push O to devices that don't support seamless and then just never provide another update. No one wants that. It'd also be possible for Samsung to send their update to Google and for Google to send it out to devices - which is hackery and would be at best temporary.

The quote about it not being required is true - on N devices (those that ship with N) it isn't required. And that's a huge part of the problem. Being optional may be, "you don't have to do this, but if you do not, you're never updating devices past API level x".

There are two other possible paths.

1. The the Pixels and everything that ships with N and supports seamless updates get updated to 8.0 while everything else gets a new version of 7.x with many of the features, but it's basically a final update. Samsung has gone this route before with Gingerbread, rather than pushing an update to ICS.
2. There are two versions of O - 1 for devices that don't support requirements and 1 those that will get updated to Peeps. This is fragmentation of the worst kind and would generally suck for everyone.

But the question isn't just, "what does Google WANT to do". It is: what can Google, Samsung, HTC, Moto, LG, Huawei, Qualcomm, Sony, etc, etc. work out amongst themselves that is in the financial best interests as determined via negotiation for as many parties as possible, respective of their positional clout and tolerance?

And the final questions are - if Google does have this requirement for O, did they let their partners know about it and if so, will the OEM's actually comply for those devices that do ship with N?

It's important to remember that Google isn't doing this to Samsung, they're taking an action that improves both the security and user experience for millions of users in all future versions and the line does have to be drawn somewhere - and that line will impact a lot of devices, such as the Nexus devices, perhaps the Pixel C - etc.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

This is interesting, I couldn't find anything but I presume you have a more developer-side sort of knowledge on this. How do you know what google wants for the future?

I know a couple of the people working on Android O.

At the moment the sd 820, exynos 8890, and the s7 itself already support opengl es 3.2, and vulkan. Is there even anything beyond that atm?

But about exynos chips, they are rumoured to be working on cdma support and their own in-house gpu for their 2018 flagships (atm they just use arm, who are in charge of maintaining drivers). So they will move regardless, and if Samsung starts supplying chipsets we might see some competition forcing qualcomm to act.

OpenGL ES 3.3 was defined in March of 2010 https://www.opengl.org/registry/doc/glspec33.core.20100311.withchanges.pdf Android is very far behind. This is something Google would like to change.

Support beyond 3.2 is more of a money thing than a technical limitation. The 820 should be able to incorporate the changes if Qualcomm is willing to spend the money to do it. Historically, Qualcomm has not been willing to do this.

I don't really see this as being something google will force oems to do though. That would be silly. When marshmallow came with encryption, phones prior to that were still updated to marshmallow but just didn't get encryption, even though google basically made it mandatory for any devices launching with marshmallow, iirc. At the moment basically all oems give two updates, I don't think google would force it to become one.

And here is a quote from this site, written by... you lol.

Encryption was a requirement in Marshmallow until OEM's convinced Google to change it. Seamless updates are not required for Android 7. They will be required for future updates unless manufacturers can once again convince google to change their minds.

It's important to remember that Samsung, LG, HTC and the rest knew about these new software features (and potential requirements) when they were building their 2016 devices, just like they know the state of Android O right now. They're not making these decisions without all the information they need.

 

[SteelGator]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

All of this has me wondering if we get a new OS player in the market a lot sooner than later. I know that Samsung has had a couple false starts with Tizen, but are they still preparing to make the switch? They feel to me like the want (need) more control over their environment and ecosystem. This drama around running O and soon P may be moot if they are planning to switch. A successful Pixel will just accelerate the need for Samsung to make a major move, IMO.

 

[raqball]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

Samsung wants to get away, no doubt... I assume that's why they have duplicate services of everything that Google does..

Their phones (in my opinion) are complete laggy, buggy, bloated and crapware having junk... But that's just my opinion.

I doubt Samsung would make it very far without Google / Android though.. My .02 of course..

 

[1213 1213]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

OpenGL ES 3.3 was defined in March of 2010 https://www.opengl.org/registry/doc/glspec33.core.20100311.withchanges.pdf Android is very far behind. This is something Google would like to change.

Encryption was a requirement in Marshmallow until OEM's convinced Google to change it. Seamless updates are not required for Android 7. They will be required for future updates unless manufacturers can once again convince google to change their minds.

That link is for open gl. Opengl es is different. Opengl is currently better but I don't think it's by much anymore. But apparently even though gpus support 3.2, they only technically make the cut while missing stuff that 3.2 should have.

But about seamless updates, I really don't think Samsung and most oems would unprecedentedly only give one update, and I don't think google would force them to either. Since they knew what they were going into, I think the assumption should be the status quo and not an unprecedented change over something so insignificant (relatively). Encryption was a much bigger deal and even that wasn't a problem.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

If Microsoft can't successfully make a stab into the market with really good hardware at amazing prices and 20 years of user data (and spending billions while trying to do it), Tizen doesn't stand a chance.

There are 1.6 million reasons in the Play Store why Samsung can't just leave Google. And there are trillions of MB of data inside services you can't see that are equally important. Microsoft did everything right and could not compete with Google and Apple.

The only effect Samsung abandoning Google's Android in favor of Tizen and Android is that we would see Huawei sales skyrocket.

 

[1213 1213]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

All of this has me wondering if we get a new OS player in the market a lot sooner than later. I know that Samsung has had a couple false starts with Tizen, but are they still preparing to make the switch? They feel to me like the want (need) more control over their environment and ecosystem. This drama around running O and soon P may be moot if they are planning to switch. A successful Pixel will just accelerate the need for Samsung to make a major move, IMO.

I honestly think that would be bad. Unless proper cross-platform developing becomes real it would be problematic.

I think it would be interesting to see whether pixel damages Samsung or Apple the most though. It is basically the Apple android. So while normally you would think it would damage Samsung more (closet Apple fans ), in this case it may take iPhone users.

 

[Ry]

These articles, they're always opinion.

There's only what's best for you.

If you disagree with them, agree to disagree. Your opinion doesn't automatically make their opinion incorrect. And their opinion doesn't automatically make your opinion incorrect.

 

[SteelGator]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

If Microsoft can't successfully make a stab into the market with really good hardware at amazing prices and 20 years of user data (and spending billions while trying to do it), Tizen doesn't stand a chance.

There are 1.6 million reasons in the Play Store why Samsung can't just leave Google. And there are trillions of MB of data inside services you can't see that are equally important. Microsoft did everything right and could not compete with Google and Apple.

The only effect Samsung abandoning Google's Android in favor of Tizen and Android is that we would see Huawei sales skyrocket.

Thanks for weighing in Jerry. Makes sense, and you are very likely right. Should be interesting to watch how it all develops moving forward. There are more and more OEMs making a good product, and if Google gets the hardware commercialization piece down they are going to be formidable. At the end of the day, this is all great for us consumers -- more choice.

 

[Aquila]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

But about seamless updates, I really don't think Samsung and most oems would unprecedentedly only give one update, and I don't think google would force them to either. Since they knew what they were going into, I think the assumption should be the status quo and not an unprecedented change over something so insignificant (relatively). Encryption was a much bigger deal and even that wasn't a problem.

The line has to be drawn somewhere, so the assumption has to be that it will be drawn at some point in time. If the line isn't now, it'll be soon because this is a change that has to happen for the ecosystem to grow properly. If this plays out the worst way it can, Samsung will release the S8 with Nougat and without seamless updates and it'll never move past Nougat. Everyone is hoping that's not the case.

 

[anon(9072051)]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

This is a little off topic but I have not been able to see a Pixel in person. How does the white phone look in person? Considering going to Best Buy, which is an hour away, to get the white Pixel XL. I've never had a white phone so I am unsure.

Looks like your question got lost in the fray. The white phone looks and feels really good in hand: the white frame actually makes the display look classier, kind of like an art print. And, FYI, this is coming from someone who is not a fan of the Pixels (for other reasons).

 

[Ry]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

Looks like your question got lost in the fray. The white phone looks and feels really good in hand: the white frame actually makes the display look classier, kind of like an art print. And, FYI, this is coming from someone who is not a fan of the Pixels (for other reasons).

I agree. I tend to prefer the white fronts, sensors and all.

 

[SteelGator]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

I honestly think that would be bad. Unless proper cross-platform developing becomes real it would be problematic.

I think it would be interesting to see whether pixel damages Samsung or Apple the most though. It is basically the Apple android. So while normally you would think it would damage Samsung more (closet Apple fans ), in this case it may take iPhone users.

I can only speak from my experience. I quit Motorola after the Droid Maxx (lack of support, Nexus 6 very delayed on VZW) and moved to the Note 4 and then the Note 7. I was very very slow to move into the Samsung ecosystem, as tempting and hard to avoid as they make it. Over 3 years or so, I had more stuff than I realized in Samsung's world. Moving to the Pixel highlighted to me how difficult they make it to move my information out of their systems. I have never had this problem with Google. At this point, for me, I cannot imagine going back to Samsung unless the N8 is off the charts good. I am willing to be without a few features to have greater portability, and frankly a better software experience.

The Nexus phones were always an issue for me because I am on Verizon. The juice was not worth the squeeze. If Pixels are going to be on Verizon going forward, my default will be to stay on Pixel, just not sure if I will be a yearly or every other year upgrader. The great part is, if I decide to leave Pixel, all my stuff comes with me easily.

I know I am only 1 and not a trend, but Samsung's error has folks trying all types of different devices. They are not all going back.

 

[jdfry15]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

Looks like your question got lost in the fray. The white phone looks and feels really good in hand: the white frame actually makes the display look classier, kind of like an art print. And, FYI, this is coming from someone who is not a fan of the Pixels (for other reasons).

I have never owned a white phone. Picked up the white pixel xl. Don't know why but I really liked the way it looked. I actually thought it was pretty ugly in videos, but when I saw it in person I really liked it.

 

[dario12v]

Lets be real. The best android phone is without question the n7. But now I need to go cry into my wheaties. I am send it off today to the land of not mine anymore. I do enjoy the pixel xl and I would say its better then the s7e or at least on par.
I also don't get why when comparing the cameras, the free cloud storage is not a bigger detail. Not in comparing the phones, but specifically in the camera. Being able to record everything on the max setting is huge. I had the n7 with a large memory card and still did not record in full on the video. also on a vacation, I would limit resolution or video. With 128 xp pixel I am recording full 4k. Taking slow motion, letting my kids record photo spheres, take videos and pictures. Also not that I wasn't using google photos before, but now I can leave everything and just keep recording. let the app manage storage. And again having it be unlimited (at least for now) I don't have to worry about buying storage or managing it.

So in this case having the best camera isn't as simple as specs. because if it limits your ability to use it then its just not as good. Even if all else was equal the pixel may win in the long run.

This is my opinion and not the only factor. I am currently on the phone with verizon because my signal strength is abysmal. If this is systemic on the pixel or pixel xl. It may be the biggest factor for me. It may just be my phone or some setting not corrected. fingers crossed. I may just be lucky enough to get my 6th phone in the last 2 months. (g4, n7, s7e, n7, iphone 5s, pixel xl, pixel xl) I am feeling a bit done with entering all my stuff.

Agree with you there
The note 7 is the best phone in the market (or not in the market)

Played with my girlfriends pixel xl
Not comparable to my note 7
Note 7 is in another class
Not even close

 

[Rumblee1]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article.

For a "best" you have to include all aspects.

Specs
Features
Camera
Battery life
Price
Design
UI

For the price Samsung s7/edge must surely win? And I don't own one btw.

The price of the Pixel, is absurd considering the features missing, or waterproofing, no SD support, untested battery life, copycat design.

The only major feature(s) are the UI, and maybe the camera.

Then you have the oneplus 3. Which is effectively the Pixel without nougat. But more than half the price.

I really feel ACs reviews and recommendations for the Pixel are somewhat forced by their business model and advertising needs.

If this was an independent site (not android specific) then the Pixel would not be top.

TRUER WORDS WERE NEVER SPOKEN. I do own a galaxy S7 EDGE, an axon 7, and the new Google pixel. To be very honest, the Pixel is a great phone, but doesn't come close to the S7 edge. All the tests show how fast it is, but in real world applications, that speed against the S7E and axon 7 is practically indistinguishable. When you do notice it, it's by a split second. Everyone is raving about the free picture storage. Really? I'd rather have an SD card any day. And if you compare price, even though the S7E is king, you should consider the ZTE AXON 7. It realy is one hell of a device at almost half the cost. Why do I have one when I've got an S7E? Because I love my music and wanted the best possible music experisnce. And the Axon 7 has dolby atmos, and a premium amplifier. If the Axon 7 had been released when I bought my S7E, I would have only bought the Axon 7. Thats how good a device it is. Its only drawbacks, 1-low light pictures are not as good as the S7 edge but not bad either, and 2-verizon hasn't blessed it with you being able to use it on their network, even though it works for some VZW customers. I'm using it on project fi. So, all the hype about pixel is what brainwashed most buyers, myself included. Just like the bland iphone. Its good, but not the best by any means. When I received my pixel, I was expecting so much, because of the hype, that it was a huge letdown especially compared to my S7E and axon 7.

 

[JoshDunc]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

TRUER WORDS WERE NEVER SPOKEN. I do own a galaxy S7 EDGE, an axon 7, and the new Google pixel. To be very honest, the Pixel is a great phone, but doesn't come close to the S7 edge. All the tests show how fast it is, but in real world applications, that speed against the S7E and axon 7 is practically indistinguishable. When you do notice it, it's by a split second. Everyone is raving about the free picture storage. Really? I'd rather have an SD card any day. And if you compare price, even though the S7E is king, you should consider the ZTE AXON 7. It realy is one hell of a device at almost half the cost. Why do I have one when I've got an S7E? Because I love my music and wanted the best possible music experisnce. And the Axon 7 has dolby atmos, and a premium amplifier. If the Axon 7 had been released when I bought my S7E, I would have only bought the Axon 7. Thats how good a device it is. Its only drawbacks, 1-low light pictures are not as good as the S7 edge but not bad either, and 2-verizon hasn't blessed it with you being able to use it on their network, even though it works for some VZW customers. I'm using it on project fi. So, all the hype about pixel is what brainwashed most buyers, myself included. Just like the bland iphone. Its good, but not the best by any means. When I received my pixel, I was expecting so much, because of the hype, that it was a huge letdown especially compared to my S7E and axon 7.

Again, what you perceive as "the best" is different than what others perceive as "the best." Personally, the Pixel XL is the best phone available. I had the iPhone 7 Plus but dumped it for the Pixel XL and super glad I did. It is noticeably faster than my iPhone 7 Plus was. It may be "bland" to you but I actually like it. Plus, I could really care less about the design as long as the software functions. I know some people buy a phone for the aesthetics but function > aesthetics.

 

[Friendzone]

Re: AC recommends....

I agree, but mostly because the AC nerds are just riding the hype wave generated by the newest thing to jump into the smartphone pool. The Pixels haven't been subjected to enough diverse real-world testing to earn any sort of title yet. By January, reviewers will have a much better case to make for the phones; for now, they're just trolling for clicks and cooing like early adopters do.

Sounds really close to something I said a couple times recently, you pretty much nailed it.

 

[jd78]

Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

Everyone is raving about the free picture storage. Really? I'd rather have an SD card any day.

I'm not going to continue with this Pixel vs. the world argument, its been done to death...

What I would like to touch on though is the highly touted feature of the SD card. I've had a couple friends recently lose all their files/pictures due to a SD card failure or corruption. Granted, they did not lose it all due to regularly backing up their stuff, and they didn't lose all of their pictures due to Google Photos (just not original res), but they lost enough where they were reminded to not be so reliant on physical storage.

Cloud storage is not a perfect solution, but they were sure glad it was there when their SD card died. Unfortunately for them, their pictures are not saved in original resolution like Pixel users.

 

[jd78]

Re: AC recommends....

Sounds really close to something I said a couple times recently, you pretty much nailed it.

But it's ok for the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge or even the Note 7 to get the same title when reviews release at launch? Double F'ing Standard!

Bottom line is reviews come out right around launch and its not uncommon for a new flagship phone to get the title of best whatever until something comes out next month or down the road to dethrone it. The only difference is that we are at a point that 6 months no longer makes a huge difference.