The mobile OS war is over

[JeffDenver]

I have a Surface 2. Runs Windows RT. Guess where my apps have to come from?

From Microsoft's tablet store. Their phone and tablet ecosystem has nothing to do with their desktops. On the desktop Windows 8 has never been closed, and you have never been forced to use the Metro store.

And really some of them are done quite well

I can already get Netflix without metro. I guess that is my point...it is not giving me anything I don't already have from other sources (and with fewer strings attached).

I explored the store a few times and there was nothing that I saw that I felt I had to have. Mostly I see it as a transparent attempt to create a Walled Garden like Apple has, and I don't want any part of it.

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

From Microsoft's tablet store. Their phone and tablet ecosystem has nothing to do with their desktops. On the desktop Windows 8 has never been closed, and you have never been forced to use the Metro store.


I can already get Netflix without metro. I guess that is my point...it is not giving me anything I don't already have from other sources (and with fewer strings attached).

I explored the store a few times and there was nothing that I saw that I felt I had to have. Mostly I see it as a transparent attempt to create a Walled Garden like Apple has, and I don't want any part of it.

You're forced to use it for Metro apps. The fact that you choose not to does not make it less true.

By purchasing Windows 8 you're supporting the move to the walled garden approach.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Vsweety]

My point being, the problem was not Microsoft.

Its sheer size and overwhelming dominance was the problem. Cooperate or get squashed and left by the wayside.
Ask DEC, Sinclair, Tandy, Atari, Commodore, BBC... the list goes on.

It was not a walled garden because there were no walls. Microsoft was not forbidding you to use alternate stores or telling you what hardware you can install it on. So when I said "windows has never been a walled garden" thats what I meant. The platform itself was open, because you did not need to hack it to get these options.

The alternative to hacking was paying the price of Windows itself, MS Office, etc.
Remember how f...ing expensive that was? Many hundreds of bucks per OS or application suite!
So you got an illegal copy from (somebody's) workplace. Either that or you couldn't afford a useful PC at home.
Again, Microsoft didn't need to lock-in. Because they were omnipresent. There was no escaping Windows.
So they only locked out! If you didn't use Windows you couldn't use the Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and database files, etc., that the rest of the world was churning out. And vice versa: your non-Windows files wouldn't run on 95% of PCs out there...

 

[sting7k]

What price points do you think Apple is not hitting?

Apple has products in every price range that Android has products. You can get Apple phones for $0 on contract just like Android.



So you are saying people are not buying Apple products because they are missing features, like large displays?

Outside North America most phones are sold off contract. Apple has zero market share in the sub $400 phone market any where in the world. Even if a contract customer pays $0 the carrier already paid Apple for the phone. In many markets $400+ is too much for a phone so they buy the low end Android devices only. They might not even have the option to buy an iPhone if they wanted.

 

[JeffDenver]

You're forced to use it for Metro apps.

I know. Fortunately on the desktop version we still have the choice to ignore Metro for almost everything. Metro is optional on the desktop.

By purchasing Windows 8 you're supporting the move to the walled garden approach.

Technically I might be. I don't think that simply using Windows would be seen as tacit approval of Metro. I think it's the opposite...the fact that I am buying and using Windows, but not Metro, would be seen as a clear rejection of the wall garden. Microsoft is not stupid enough to miss that (especially since Balmer left). IMO, I think the backlash against the walled garden approach will convince Microsoft to back off. I don't think they anticipated this much resistance to these changes.

If Microsoft ever did go full walled-garden, that would be enough to finally push me to Linux. And I am sure I would not be alone.

 

[JeffDenver]

Outside North America most phones are sold off contract.

You can get a 3Gs for under $130 on Amazon. New.

Apple has zero market share in the sub $400 phone market any where in the world. Even if a contract customer pays $0 the carrier already paid Apple for the phone. In many markets $400+ is too much for a phone so they buy the low end Android devices only.

They have the option to buy Apple phones in that price range.

iPhone 4s ($350 as of this writing) - http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-...ag=hawk-future-20&ascsubtag=UUacUvbUpU3535795
iPhone 4 ($290 as of this writing) - Amazon.com: IPHONE 4 16GB - Factory Unlocked - Black: Cell Phones & Accessories
iPhone 3GS ($130 as of this writing) - Amazon.com: Apple iPhone 3GS 8GB (Black) - AT&T: Cell Phones & Accessories

 

[Haalcyon]

Hmmm...4s vs Nexus 5 for $350. That's a tough choice. ...but the Nexus 5 will likely be the better investment here.


via the tablet

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

I know. Fortunately on the desktop version we still have the choice to ignore Metro for almost everything. Metro is optional on the desktop.


Technically I might be. I don't think that simply using Windows would be seen as tacit approval of Metro. I think it's the opposite...the fact that I am buying and using Windows, but not Metro, would be seen as a clear rejection of the wall garden. Microsoft is not stupid enough to miss that (especially since Balmer left). IMO, I think the backlash against the walled garden approach will convince Microsoft to back off. I don't think they anticipated this much resistance to these changes.

If Microsoft ever did go full walled-garden, that would be enough to finally push me to Linux. And I am sure I would not be alone.

They got your money for Windows 8, thereby validating their decisions around it.

That's like saying you don't like a certain part of Android but still purchasing an Android device. By doing so you validate the platform.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[JeffDenver]

They got your money for Windows 8, thereby validating their decisions around it.

If that was true they would not be caving on decisions they made in 8.1.

The Return of the Windows Start Menu: Good for Us, Good for Microsoft | TIME.com

That's like saying you don't like a certain part of Android but still purchasing an Android device.

I already did that with the Nexus 5. I don't like that it has no SD, but I bought it anyway.

By doing so you validate the platform.

Yes. As it currently exists...which is open.

 

[jrb363]

I wasn't aware we were at war. I simply use what fits me best at the time. I had an iPhone for 5 years and decided to see what Android offered last year. I've fallen in love with some aspects of it, but the iPhone does have a few things that I miss. Oh well...congratulations I guess on your imaginary victory.

 

[Haalcyon]

I wasn't aware we were at war. I simply use what fits me best at the time. I had an iPhone for 5 years and decided to see what Android offered last year. I've fallen in love with some aspects of it, but the iPhone does have a few things that I miss. Oh well...congratulations I guess on your imaginary victory.

Welcome to the 'hood.

via one of the t@blets

 

[JeffDenver]

I wasn't aware we were at war. I simply use what fits me best at the time. I had an iPhone for 5 years and decided to see what Android offered last year. I've fallen in love with some aspects of it, but the iPhone does have a few things that I miss. Oh well...congratulations I guess on your imaginary victory.

The war is not between platforms, but ideologies (Closed vs Open). Apple is just the best at the Closed system right now, so it takes all the criticism directed at closed systems.

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

If that was true they would not be caving on decisions they made in 8.1.

The Return of the Windows Start Menu: Good for Us, Good for Microsoft | TIME.com


I already did that with the Nexus 5. I don't like that it has no SD, but I bought it anyway.


Yes. As it currently exists...which is open.

So you're sticking with that after you've already admitted that Metro apps have to be installed from the Windows Store? The point of Windows 8 was to get away from the desktop, which would mean people are going to hit that Metro app market to get their stuff. If the app they want isn't available there are they going to flip over to the desktop side and see if a legacy app is? My guess is no, and if they do install a legacy app it's most likely because they already have it. That will mostly apply to "new" Windows 8 users of course. Most people that know better are just sticking with Win7 I think. (I am on my Windows machine)

Let me ask this, and right now it's purely hypothetical (at least until the desktop dies, or support for legacy apps goes away): does the ability to go to a mobile website (or full website) mean that a platform is also open since you don't have to use the app to get the content? That would mean that you don't have to participate in the "closed ecosystem" right?

 

[Haalcyon]

So you're sticking with that after you've already admitted that Metro apps have to be installed from the Windows Store? The point of Windows 8 was to get away from the desktop, which would mean people are going to hit that Metro app market to get their stuff. If the app they want isn't available there are they going to flip over to the desktop side and see if a legacy app is? My guess is no, and if they do install a legacy app it's most likely because they already have it. That will mostly apply to "new" Windows 8 users of course. Most people that know better are just sticking with Win7 I think. (I am on my Windows machine)

Let me ask this, and right now it's purely hypothetical (at least until the desktop dies, or support for legacy apps goes away): does the ability to go to a mobile website (or full website) mean that a platform is also open since you don't have to use the app to get the content? That would mean that you don't have to participate in the "closed ecosystem" right?

As a IT Specialist I purchased Windows 8 (to stay in the 'know') but was largely disappointed. Much prefer Windows 7.


via the phone

 

[JeffDenver]

So you're sticking with that after you've already admitted that Metro apps have to be installed from the Windows Store?

Metro apps have nothing to do with Windows. You are not required to use them and can completely ignore them if you want. Windows 8, as a desktop OS, is analogous to Android.

I have explained this several times. I am getting the impression you are being disingenuous at this point. Are you saying you were not aware that it is possible to install non-Metro apps on Windows 8?

The point of Windows 8 was to get away from the desktop

Um...then why did they include a desktop? Why did they not make Metro the sole source for all software as they did with WP? You tell me.

If the app they want isn't available there are they going to flip over to the desktop side and see if a legacy app is?

"Legacy" apps are the norm on Windows 8. No one cares about metro. The only time I have ever used it was to upgrade the OS to 8.1.

Metro is not a requirement for Windows 8. You can install any app you want from any source. Microsoft does not even attempt to prevent you from doing so.

Let me ask this, and right now it's purely hypothetical (at least until the desktop dies, or support for legacy apps goes away): does the ability to go to a mobile website (or full website) mean that a platform is also open since you don't have to use the app to get the content?

Not if it still restricts what you can do with your system. Which it does by it's very nature. For example, I cannot make a website email as my default email "app". There is still no 3rd party app integration in that scenario, so it is not open.

 

[JeffDenver]

As a IT Specialist I purchased Windows 8 (to stay in the 'know') but was largely disappointed. Much prefer Windows 7.

What specifically did you not like about 8?
I use both daily. Windows 8 out performs Windows 7 by a very wide margin IMO. UI annoyances aside, it is an upgrade in every way. Fewer driver hassles, better device recognition, the UI is significantly faster and smoother on the same hardware, even in desktop mode.

 

[Haalcyon]

Don't want to continue off topic there were interface things I didn't care for.

via one of the t@blets

 

[dctokyo]

As a IT Specialist I purchased Windows 8 (to stay in the 'know') but was largely disappointed. Much prefer Windows 7.




via the phone

You me and millions of others are also largely disappointed............ I am also a IT Specialist and our company in no way will upgrade to 8 over 7.

 

[nelschroeder]

Apple holds their market share with only two phone models. Most of their competitors hold their market shares with multiple models and versions. Samsung makes and sells multiple models alone. I think it's remarkable that Apple can hold that much market share with only two versions of their phone. That speaks volumes about the quality and function of Apple products. Think what you want but as nice as Samsung's feature phone may be, they can't compete with that.

Posted with my Nexus 7 via Android Central App

 

[JeffDenver]

Apple holds their market share with only two phone models.

Why is Apple limiting itself to only two models then, if more models would give them more marketshare?

Most of their competitors hold their market shares with multiple models and versions.

I agree. But why should that matter?

I think it's remarkable that Apple can hold that much market share with only two versions of their phone.

I think it is even more remarkable that Android started from nothing and not only overcame Apple's enormous and entrenched lead, but went on to dominate the entire market. Apple had lots of advantages; they had massive funding, endless advertising, massive name recognition, an established and loyal user base, and Android still beat them.

And they did it with functionality alone. That is the only advantage Android had.

Now Android leads in stability as well. http://www.phonearena.com/news/Android-4.x-is-more-than-twice-as-stable-as-iOS-7.1_id54459#3-