Regarding Dec. 9 no longer being the unofficial date

[Maikai.Guy]

The idea that dual cores would be more power efficient came from HUGI, Hurry Up and Get Idle. The idea is that cpus use much less power while idle then while active, so if you can get done twice as fast without doubling the power consumption, then you have a net gain of battery life. You cannot do this by clocking faster since power consumption varies exponentially with clock speed, so they tried to get it done with extra cores. The problem with scaling this up to quad core is that you are assuming that these extra cores are doing enough work to save enough power to compensate for the extra power levels at idle due to the additional cores. Cores 3 and 4 will rarely be used, there are not enough multi threaded apps on android to really justify this. Maybe if android allowed apps to be run side by side cores 3 and 4 would matter but that would still consume more power then the current setup.

New technology that will improve battery life will come in the form of newer, more efficient cpu core architecture and a die shrink, both of which will be coming mid/late next year. There is a reason why the new exynos that was announced is still dual core; with android behaving the way it does it does not make sense to have quad core, unless as I said a new version allows us to run apps side by side. The ONLY reason why Nvidia is making a quad core chip and OEMs will use it is marketing, consumers are trained pretty well at this point to blindly accept larger numbers as better and as everyone knows 4 is bigger than 2.

Electrical engineer in the semiconductor industry here. ;-)

Power consumption varies exponentially with voltage, not clocking speed. Power consumption varies directly with clocking speed. The general formula for dynamic power consumption of switching transistors, is K * Vcc2 * f. K being a silicon process constant. Vcc2 being the power to the circuit, squared. f being frequency.

The reason for dual core is primarily for throughput benefits of splitting functions. In fact, a dual core setup will take more power than a single core, because it will have redundant support circuits switching while executing code, but the increase in throughput is worth the cost in power.

 

[Staypuft]

Owned

 

[ribtits]

Electrical engineer in the semiconductor industry here. ;-)

Power consumption varies exponentially with voltage, not clocking speed. Power consumption varies directly with clocking speed. The general formula for dynamic power consumption of switching transistors, is K * Vcc2 * f. K being a silicon process constant. Vcc2 being the power to the circuit, squared. f being frequency.

The reason for dual core is primarily for throughput benefits of splitting functions. In fact, a dual core setup will take more power than a single core, because it will have redundant support circuits switching while executing code, but the increase in throughput is worth the cost in power.

can you help me get a summer internship in mechanical engineering please? i live in new jersey btw...

 

[Z Fury]

You are quite wrong. I've been in business for myself since I was a young man and that time passed a while ago. Every day that inventory does not sell costs money. I've owned both retail and right now I am in the technology business (main business) and I also import goods from China which I sell to retailers. Everyday that an items sits, it is space that could be used for items that are selling and that costs real dollars.

It would be costing Verizon money, except they don't have other stock to put there. They are selling other phones, and no other carrier in the US is selling the Nexus (not counting importers of unlocked models). Verizon is also not releasing a phone that would replace the Nexus. Thus the Nexus maintains demand. Are they losing sales today? Yup. Will they recoup them as soon as the phone launches, regardless of the outrage voiced on these and other forums? Yup. Will they have to discount them to move them. Nope.

Everyday that Verizon does not release the goods they have in inventory is costing them money. It is in their best interest to start selling those goods. They are not sitting on them in order to piss off their users (as some in here have stated), but it is even worse as a business practice to sell an item that may have a problem or may exacerbate an issue (like putting the GN on sale during an outage). The Nexus, I'm sure, is flummoxing their business plan for Christmas sales and i thinks it is a very good assumption that they are as anxious to get the GN on the shelves as we are to buy it. Verizon does have some business practices that tick me off, such as all the bloatware, but they are not stupid, nor inexperienced with good business practice or they wouldn't be as large and as profitable as they are.

Having a variety of substitute products on the best network in the US give them the power and ability to do whatever they want with their product launches. As far as their Christmas business plan goes, I wouldn't be so quick to assume what you don't know. Verizon has only ever said "by the end of 2011." Not by Christmas, not 12/9 (that was a leaked internal document not meant for consumer eyes), not any other specific date that has leaked. So unless you have insider info on their business plan, I think you're arguing an unprovable point. For all any of us know, this phone was meant for an after-Christmas release in order to generate strong 1Q2012 sales leading into CES.

I've been on these forums for only a few months now but I have been constantly amazed by what I read in here at times about what people consider good business or their views on accounting etc. Having been there for a number of decades and quite successful at it I can tell you that most of what I read in here about business is untrue and juvenile.

Sorry for that long rant but some of the posts going on lately are just so far over the top that I decided to put my $.02 in.

I've been working in the accounting industry for over 10 years now (CPA), so I'm sorry if you disagree with me, but my clients and colleagues seem to believe I know what I'm talking about.

 

[bworley50]

Both of you could be correct, not simultaneously, but what no one seems to know is the manner in which Verizon is required to purchase these devices. If they outlay the cash upfront to the manufacturers and they are sitting on inventory, they are losing money every day they are unable to sell it. If not, no big deal.

 

[Maikai.Guy]

can you help me get a summer internship in mechanical engineering please? i live in new jersey btw...

Wish I could help. I'm an electrical engineering working for silicon supplier. I don't really have any connections in the mechanical engineering world. Plus, even if I did (and I truly don't), I'd have zero ability to recommend without having direct knowledge of the person.

I'd recommend you work with the placement office in your school... or reach out yourself to local companies.

From my own experience interviewing interns, I'd suggest you do some research about the company you interview with. Be prepared to say why interning at that particular company is valuable to you and your career goals as well as what you think you can provide the company. You may not be able to list skills or experience, but you can convey a sense of tenacity and willingness to put you should to the wheel as hard as is needed. Remember there is little benefit to a company to take an intern. The idea of getting a free employee is over rated. IMHO, interns generally do more harm than good. ;-) The silver lining is the potential of finding a good future employee. It's like test driving a person. ...which is why you should find an internship that is in line with your interests. You may wind up there for awhile.

 

[andydrives2fast]

Electrical engineer in the semiconductor industry here. ;-)

Power consumption varies exponentially with voltage, not clocking speed. Power consumption varies directly with clocking speed. The general formula for dynamic power consumption of switching transistors, is K * Vcc2 * f. K being a silicon process constant. Vcc2 being the power to the circuit, squared. f being frequency.

The reason for dual core is primarily for throughput benefits of splitting functions. In fact, a dual core setup will take more power than a single core, because it will have redundant support circuits switching while executing code, but the increase in throughput is worth the cost in power.

You sunk jamesbrown33's battleship

 

[Eric Kane]

Now the date they're talking about is December 15th. I wouldn't doubt it being true, but I also wouldn't doubt Verizon pushing it back again.

 

[myron317]

Electrical engineer in the semiconductor industry here. ;-)

Power consumption varies exponentially with voltage, not clocking speed. Power consumption varies directly with clocking speed. The general formula for dynamic power consumption of switching transistors, is K * Vcc2 * f. K being a silicon process constant. Vcc2 being the power to the circuit, squared. f being frequency.

The reason for dual core is primarily for throughput benefits of splitting functions. In fact, a dual core setup will take more power than a single core, because it will have redundant support circuits switching while executing code, but the increase in throughput is worth the cost in power.

Coming from a fellow engineer, I couldn't have put it better myself. Thank you for putting my thoughts to words! While this extra functionality requires extra power, it is exactly that: extra functionality. If you do not want to sacrifice battery life, then you would need to decrease cores and/or decrease clock speed, and then this would limit the amount of complaining you could do about your slow phone...

 

[racedog]

We're not talking ahout some local nickel and dime company here. Verizon could toss every single
GN they are set to recieve in a garbage can today or collect dust in inventory infinitely and never release one to any of us. They'll still be #1 and come up smelling like roses, even if they look a steaming pile of ish doing it.

My businesses are hardly local nickel and dime. My tech business is a national business with datacenters in Corpus Christi Texas, Los Angeles California and Cleveland Ohio. My import business sells to local and regional retailers.

Your response is the very reason that I seldom post in these forums. I love my phones as a personal toy and business device but there just so much childishness in most forums that I hesitate to to take an active part.

 

[pauldroidr2d2]

My two cents FWIW.

From the perspective of profits and the bottom line, I do not think they will sit on the inventory for long. Once they took the inventory from Samsung, it starts to lose value on their books. I don't have insight as to how they account for it, but from an accounting perspective they need it gone, so I don't think Beg Red will sit on it indefinitely. I think we will see something in the next couple of weeks.

Not to mention in states like California, they pay taxes on inventory that sits in storage. That's one of the reasons a number of companies keep distribution centers and such in states like AZ, and especially the Vegas area of NV to service California.

So if stores have indeed started receiving inventory in states that are similar to California's tax structure they are paying a price for the phone sitting.

 

[pauldroidr2d2]

Well performance wise the Galaxy Nexus is beat by iphone 4S, G Nexus II and Galaxy Note. And two of those will have ICS in Q1. And its not so much whats as good as or slightly better now, but what will be dramatically better in 3-4 months. In Q1/Q2 we will have the quad cores and 2Ghz dual cores will be coming out,. e..g. HTC Edge.

The Gnex looks great, has a great screen and will be the first official OCS, but the internals are already outdated. So for now, I will spend my money on Transformer Prime then start checking out the next gen phones in a few months. I know there will always be something better in "a few months", but now we are just at the beginning of dual core to quad core chips and greatly improved graphics. The demos with the Transformer Prime are amazing.

But if I had to get a phone now, the Galaxy Nexus would definitely be top 3.

Now if you feel that the above phones are superior to the Nexus, or that the phones with the quad core chips are on the verge of being released relatively soon, why even bother waiting for the Galaxy Nexus in the first place?

 

[mjhubbard]

not to throw more fire onto it, but my local stores story is that it was pushed back due to inventory issues.

 

[VideoEngineerAJS]

Not to mention in states like California, they pay taxes on inventory that sits in storage. That's one of the reasons a number of companies keep distribution centers and such in states like AZ, and especially the Vegas area of NV to service California.

So if stores have indeed started receiving inventory in states that are similar to California's tax structure they are paying a price for the phone sitting.

Yeah I know Amazon has a distribution center in Arizona as I just ordered some items from them on Tuesday and they were shipped from there. I thought it was a little odd because almost everything I've gotten from them directly (Prime elligible) has come from Memphis (obviously because it's closer to St. Louis), but I'm guessing since I ordered 3 seperate items that it was their Phoenix center that had all 3 items.

 

[Z Fury]

Not to mention in states like California, they pay taxes on inventory that sits in storage. That's one of the reasons a number of companies keep distribution centers and such in states like AZ, and especially the Vegas area of NV to service California.

So if stores have indeed started receiving inventory in states that are similar to California's tax structure they are paying a price for the phone sitting.

Indiana recently did away with inventory tax, so I'm familiar with how it worked around here. If California's inventory tax works in a similar way, the tax is calculated based on a dollar amount of inventory on a set date. Indiana companies paid inventory tax once a year, and it was lumped in with property tax calculations. Holding inventory for an additional 3-5 months didn't hurt companies here in regards to inventory tax. As long as they minimized their inventory on that magical assessment date, they were fine. That's why a lot of car dealers had an "Inventory Tax Sale" in February (March 1 was our assessment date).

 

[auburngirl]

not to throw more fire onto it, but my local stores story is that it was pushed back due to inventory issues.

I had a feeling like this might have something to do with it. I don't think my local store has them in yet.

 

[osubeavs728]

It would be costing Verizon money, except they don't have other stock to put there. They are selling other phones, and no other carrier in the US is selling the Nexus (not counting importers of unlocked models). Verizon is also not releasing a phone that would replace the Nexus. Thus the Nexus maintains demand. Are they losing sales today? Yup. Will they recoup them as soon as the phone launches, regardless of the outrage voiced on these and other forums? Yup. Will they have to discount them to move them. Nope.

I've been working in the accounting industry for over 10 years now (CPA), so I'm sorry if you disagree with me, but my clients and colleagues seem to believe I know what I'm talking about.

All items in inventory have carrying costs...both for verizon hq and each individual store that has received shipments...as an accountant you should probably know this. Also how do you know they don't have other inventory that is trying to fill that space? What if the RAZR and Rezound are selling so well that they need the space for more of those? Seems like you're throwing out statements that can't be proven either.

 

[bworley50]

I have mentioned a 12/22 launch before. That was a guess based on info I had. I guessed that because it is a Thursday. The info I had was 12/18. That will be the launch date. 12/18/2011. Not all stores have inventory, but they will by 12/18. Also, 12/18 is when the rest of the devices will arrive to the US. Yes, I know it is a Sunday.

 

[anon(512898)]

Electrical engineer in the semiconductor industry here. ;-)

Power consumption varies exponentially with voltage, not clocking speed. Power consumption varies directly with clocking speed. The general formula for dynamic power consumption of switching transistors, is K * Vcc2 * f. K being a silicon process constant. Vcc2 being the power to the circuit, squared. f being frequency.

The reason for dual core is primarily for throughput benefits of splitting functions. In fact, a dual core setup will take more power than a single core, because it will have redundant support circuits switching while executing code, but the increase in throughput is worth the cost in power.

I am not an electrical engineer (I'm a mechanical engineer actually) so I'm not going to pretend I know more about how semiconductors work then you. I was merely addressing information that Nvidia put out when they released the tegra 2 talking about how a dual core set up can finish tasks more quickly and get to an idle state in less cycles, thus using less power. This iswhat pretty much everyone talking about how multicore setups save power is referring to, I was addressing the fact that these ideas only scale to more cores if the software can actually make use of those additional cores and most applications are not heavily threaded.

 

[Z Fury]

All items in inventory have carrying costs...both for verizon hq and each individual store that has received shipments...as an accountant you should probably know this. Also how do you know they don't have other inventory that is trying to fill that space? What if the RAZR and Rezound are selling so well that they need the space for more of those? Seems like you're throwing out statements that can't be proven either.

I'd support your assumptions if Verizon only sold 3-5 products. They don't. Their inventory management system is (more than likely) setup to minimize empty space, yet allow enough empty space to absorb hickups like this. If what you say is accurate, then any slow-moving product would create a pile-up in their warehouses, and result in shortages of other products (since all their space is allocated to the slow-moving product). Yet there are no shortages. I've yet to hear of a nationwide shortage of anything for Verizon.

PS - I'm done with this off-topic discussion.