Reasons why not to support Rom Manager anymore

[gunnermike53]

The perspective of a different phone...gotcha.

Walk a mile in their (SF users) shoes and see if you whistle the same tune.

if kouch is doing this to us, whats to stop him from doing it to someone else? my coworker with a droidx went and left a nasty gram on the market.

 

[PJnc284]

Understood, and that's exactly what I do now. It is a PITA and it can only be done when I have a computer handy.

You can also rename the folder in a file manager like Astro. No need to spend $5 just for that feature. RM is a nice convenience feature when it works but everything it offers can be done another way. A few extra steps here and there won't kill anyone.

 

[nmyeti]

I started the original thread over at XDA to point out the lack of support that Koush gives the SF. I've been using a modified version of his CWR provided by JT and i have very little need or desire to use Rom Manager, but when the guy has tons of people paying $5 a pop to download his paid version of the app, i think he owes them just a bit better support than he currently provides.

With that said, it appears the firestorm has done some good as he's at least working with JT and others to get the product fixed for our phones.

 

[Johnly]

The perspective of a different phone...gotcha.

Walk a mile in their (SF users) shoes and see if you whistle the same tune.

No, I had a fascinate. I just don't see your point to an extent. Its valid, but to slam Koush for not being jesus seems a little harsh. Of course instability exist with Androids fragmentation. I just hope people reading this learn that. Not all apps run on all android phones. I think it is silly to call koush out for an apology. It takes 5 minutes to ruin RM. Return it if it doesn't work. Rooting = risk. Anyone reading this should do the proper research first. Not all rooting methods, and apps work on all devices. It is not koush's responsibility to ensure your device will work. I just think people should root after proper investigation. I disagree with this thread, but if it teaches someone something, good. Koush doesn't owe anyone anything. When rooting your phone, accept the responsibility. It isn't koush's fault, as RM works with many devices, not all. Is he going to buy and confirm his code on every device? No man. Fascinate users, don't buy rooting apps unless you confirm they are compatible with your device. Simple.

 

[Clak]

Guys, let's avoid taking shots at each other, please.

Is the ignore list on AC disabled or something, I swear I can't find it.

 

[Adrynalyne]

Johnly, I am going to kindly bow out, because you clearly have no idea what this is about.

Play devil's advocate, but educate yourself about the situation, first.

 

[jackmei2]

plain and simple, I paid $5 for an app that is supposed to work with my device. if it doesn't work, fix it or give me my $5 back...

 

[Johnly]

Johnly, I am going to kindly bow out, because you clearly have no idea what this is about.

Play devil's advocate, but educate yourself about the situation, first.

Good Job kid. You insult my intelligence, and my Education. Classy fella. You started this thread, not me.

 

[Adrynalyne]

If you took that as an insult, then maybe you should go outside and get some fresh air.

You are arguing for the wrong reasons. its clear you don't know whats going on.

I'd call that uninformed. If you want to take it to heart and consider it a blow to your intelligence...well, I feel for you.

Thats all I have to say on the matter.

 

[Clak]

Don't feed the troll folks, lets move on.

 

[Johnly]

If you took that as an insult, then maybe you should go outside and get some fresh air.

You are arguing for the wrong reasons. its clear you don't know whats going on.

I'd call that uninformed. If you want to take it to heart and consider it a blow to your intelligence...well, I feel for you.

Thats all I have to say on the matter.

I am a pre med student. I am a proud member of Phi Betta Kappa Honors Society. I assure you, you insulted me. The air outside is very fresh. Not everyone sees it like you. Will I say you are "wrong?" No. Will I revert to child like innuendos? No. And I won't say anything regarding your informality's either. Carry on fella. You think every rooting app should work on every device? Who does that? Who thinks Z4root works on all of them? Who does that stuff? Root your phone wisely and search the forums first before downloading apps that can potentially brick your phone. Around here, we take responsibility. I guess that is a geological phenomena.

 

[Chris3D]

When rooting your phone, accept the responsibility. It isn't koush's fault,

If the app he is selling isn't working, then it absolutely is his fault. How can you blame his app not working on whether someone may or may not have rooted their phone? The two really aren't related in any way. Yes, when you root, you accept responsibility for the potential of messing up your device. You don't, and shouldn't be expected to, accept responsibility for a developer's paid app not working because the developer simply doesn't feel like fixing it.

Is he going to buy and confirm his code on every device? No man.

If he made over a million dollars on his app, he absolutely should purchase, borrow or test his app one of every device out there. Either that, or when it comes to his attention that his app isn't working on a particular device, he should make every effort to make that clear so users of that device don't spend their hard-earned money on a broken app. He's done neither in this case - he was well aware of the fact that his app was broken on our phones, had no intention of fixing it, and made no effort to make this fact known to potential buyers.

Fascinate users, don't buy rooting apps unless you confirm they are compatible with your device. Simple.

And how is one to do that when the developer won't even list in the app description the devices he knows his app won't work on? That is his responsibility. If he made these facts known and someone purchased the app anyway, then yea, that person is assuming the responsibility for what feature(s) may not be functional. But without a warning, sorry, the responsibility remains on the developer.

 

[Johnly]

Chris3D, thanks for topic related responses. Awesome. I am not saying he is right, I am just trying to figure out where in the Android handbook does it say all market apps run on all devices? They don't, and I could list a 100 at least ( I may to help newbies reading this) as that is my primary focus. I just hate seeing people make 5 dollar mistakes that may end up being 500 dollar ones. I am not saying anyone is wrong, or Koush is right. I don't care there. I do want people to understand google's open OS means compatibility issues with apps can and do happen. Does that make the app developer wrong? Or is it Samsungs fault? Most apps on unrooted devices run fine. But rooted devices need care. I don't get (although I do, and have made mistakes too) how people run apps that intervene the boot-loader without confirming first if they work. I have always done research and asked seasoned forum members before messing with system files. I just think Koush never intended harm, and it is kinda low-ball to create that perception of him here. Newbies, do not change system files until you confirm they work. Is that to difficult for us to do these days?

 

[Landshark]

I am a pre med student. I am a proud member of Phi Betta Kappa Honors Society. I assure you, you insulted me. The air outside is very fresh. Not everyone sees it like you. Will I say you are "wrong?" No. Will I revert to child like innuendos? No. And I won't say anything regarding your informality's either. Carry on fella. You think every rooting app should work on every device? Who does that? Who thinks Z4root works on all of them? Who does that stuff? Root your phone wisely and search the forums first before downloading apps that can potentially brick your phone. Around here, we take responsibility. I guess that is a geological phenomena.

Johnly,
I know I posted earlier everyone has the freedom to simply ignore your posts, and I'm going against that advice. But I'd like to just interject a little because it seems things have gotten heated and a bit skewed. I have read every post in this thread and nowhere in this thread has Adrynalyne said he expects every rooting app should work on every device. As I understand it, his point in posting his thread was to bring to everyone's attention the thread at XDA which was started as a result of Koush's tweet. Also from my understanding, Adrynalyne's point he was trying to make was that he, jt1134, punk.kaos and the other fascinate indie devs have tried on numerous occasions to work with koush to resolve the issues with rom manager and the fascinate, and he has basically told them to pound sand and fix it themselves. I do not have any inside info on this, this is just my understanding from what I have read. You keep trying to push the "rom manager doesn't work with the fascinate, oh well" attitude. It seems Adrynalyne's whole point was not just that rom manager no longer works with the fascinate, it's that they have tried to work with koush to resolve the issues and he has been uncooperative. I think that is what Adrynalyne meant when he was saying you were uninformed. Yes, koush is now working with the devs, but only after fascinate owners flooded the review sections of the two versions of rom manager with reviews alerting everyone to his uncooperative stance. I'm not trying to take sides in this post, just trying to play peacemaker and give you my understanding of what Adrynalyne has been trying to say in this forum. And I understand and agree with your point that it is best for people to read as much as they can and do research before rooting, flashing roms & themes, or buying apps. I prefer to know and understand what I'm doing before I do it rather than follow some instructions I don't understand. Hopefully everyone can take a step back, catch their breaths and get a better understanding of each other's point of view.

 

[Adrynalyne]

Ok, I lied. I do have more to say.

What Johnly is arguing and what we are arguing are two different things.

Johnly is right, take responsiiblity if you root and change files.

What we are saying is right too: Hey if you are gonna charge for an app, provide updates, listen to dev/user feedback and give a working product out the door. Stock cwr for the fascinate never mounted data correctly, nor did usb mass storage EVER work, even before any custom kernels came out. Thats shoddy work, and to expect developer support, when a paid app revolves around cwr, is a given. The fact that Koush was ignoring the SF devs trying to get him to get off his ass and work with them for MONTHS, is inexcusable. The fact that fix permissions has been broken for over a month since Froyo released, is inexcusible. Rom Manager is not open sourced. Koush has an obligation to support it, fix it, listen to feedback, and maintain the application. Throwing out a half assed recovery and calling it a day, just to sucker people into donating via Rom Manager Premium is an insult.

By the way Johnly,

Koush has been working with the devs since this blew up. He has even apologized to some of them, even though he insulted an entire community. he even went so far as to mention it was a drunken tweet. I know if I am a jerk, I apologize if I am in the wrong. Is Koush above basic civil human behavior? Or is there something special about him that makes it acceptable to walk all over others?

I also sent him a tweet on how to fix his fix permissions function. If he does not fix it, well then, I rest my case about all of this.

In short, Johnly is arguing one thing, and we have been arguing another. Uninformed.

 

[Johnly]

Johnly,
I know I posted earlier everyone has the freedom to simply ignore your posts, and I'm going against that advice. But I'd like to just interject a little because it seems things have gotten heated and a bit skewed. I have read every post in this thread and nowhere in this thread has Adrynalyne said he expects every rooting app should work on every device. As I understand it, his point in posting his thread was to bring to everyone's attention the thread at XDA which was started as a result of Koush's tweet. Also from my understanding, Adrynalyne's point he was trying to make was that he, jt1134, punk.kaos and the other fascinate indie devs have tried on numerous occasions to work with koush to resolve the issues with rom manager and the fascinate, and he has basically told them to pound sand and fix it themselves. I do not have any inside info on this, this is just my understanding from what I have read. You keep trying to push the "rom manager doesn't work with the fascinate, oh well" attitude. It seems Adrynalyne's whole point was not just that rom manager no longer works with the fascinate, it's that they have tried to work with koush to resolve the issues and he has been uncooperative. I think that is what Adrynalyne meant when he was saying you were uninformed. Yes, koush is now working with the devs, but only after fascinate owners flooded the review sections of the two versions of rom manager with reviews alerting everyone to his uncooperative stance. I'm not trying to take sides in this post, just trying to play peacemaker and give you my understanding of what Adrynalyne has been trying to say in this forum. And I understand and agree with your point that it is best for people to read as much as they can and do research before rooting, flashing roms & themes, or buying apps. I prefer to know and understand what I'm doing before I do it rather than follow some instructions I don't understand. Hopefully everyone can take a step back, catch their breaths and get a better understanding of each other's point of view.

Some of the best stuff I read makes me mad, but I read it too, as being informed is always better than shutting off and closing my mind. I was never trying to see Adrynalyne's point, as I was more focused on trying to help new people to android to not make that mistake. In my first posts here I could have had a little more tact, but I never tied a user-name to a low-ball remark. It is the content of the thread, not Adrynalyne, that disturbs me a little. It is like reading the disgruntled customer review of some bunk tires they bought and didn't return them in the warranty period. Koush will never please everyone, and I am sure more disgruntled customers lie in the wake with future devices.


Should Koush test every device? I don't think so, because the instance he said this will work, he takes all responsibility for everyone who roots with his recovery on whatever device he officially supports. It won't happen. I am trying to look at this without adding "heat." I am glad you agree that people should research first, and I think that should be the focus here, not "Koush is not cooperating."

I am sorry for people being out 5 bucks, but they need to take at least part of that, and be responsible for it. I am real sorry that the fella bricked his phone, but from what I read, he is known for trying stuff out ,so I am sure he takes some responsibility, and doesn't blame Koush 100%? I just love the heck out of Android, and the developers and community make it rock. I went to the RM app in the market, and it is littered with people upset that RM doesn't work on the Fasc. When did he ever say it would work? I think we are being to childish with "Koush isn't working for us," and "he needs to apologise." You know.

 

[jack22182]

You can also rename the folder in a file manager like Astro. No need to spend $5 just for that feature. RM is a nice convenience feature when it works but everything it offers can be done another way. A few extra steps here and there won't kill anyone.

That's actually an excellent idea that I had not thought of.

I'd still be very happy to see ROM Manager working right on the SF again.

 

[fsuagentsmith]

Just throwing it out there, but did anyone see he and JT1134 fixed the problem about two hours ago and posted it. Koush thanked JT1134 for his 8 hours of helping him fix the problem.

BTW I have read nothing except the first page of this thread and the last page of the thread. I have no idea what is going on in this forum except I did not see that the problem CWM was having with the SF was fixed.

 

[Johnly]

Ok, I lied. I do have more to say.

What Johnly is arguing and what we are arguing are two different things.

Johnly is right, take responsiiblity if you root and change files.

What we are saying is right too: Hey if you are gonna charge for an app, provide updates, listen to dev/user feedback and give a working product out the door. Stock cwr for the fascinate never mounted data correctly, nor did usb mass storage EVER work, even before any custom kernels came out. Thats shoddy work, and to expect developer support, when a paid app revolves around cwr, is a given. The fact that Koush was ignoring the SF devs trying to get him to get off his ass and work with them for MONTHS, is inexcusable. The fact that fix permissions has been broken for over a month since Froyo released, is inexcusible. Rom Manager is not open sourced. Koush has an obligation to support it, fix it, listen to feedback, and maintain the application. Throwing out a half assed recovery and calling it a day, just to sucker people into donating via Rom Manager Premium is an insult.

By the way Johnly,

Koush has been working with the devs since this blew up. He has even apologized to some of them, even though he insulted an entire community. he even went so far as to mention it was a drunken tweet. I know if I am a jerk, I apologize if I am in the wrong. Is Koush above basic civil human behavior? Or is there something special about him that makes it acceptable to walk all over others?

I also sent him a tweet on how to fix his fix permissions function. If he does not fix it, well then, I rest my case about all of this.

In short, Johnly is arguing one thing, and we have been arguing another. Uninformed.

I can not remember the last time I made so many people sore at me. I am arguing another point, but I haven't missed yours, and I have chimed in a little on that here and there. I just don't get it I suppose, and that is because I see it differently. We all say/do stupid things once in awhile. I think it is nice that Koush is working on such an old device, lucky you I know he isn't required to, or even has to acknowledge it, but he is. What a decent dude.

 

[Adrynalyne]

I had mentioned it (re: Koush and jt1134 fixing things). I think it was glossed over though.